Hi folks,
why has the DS3 Cleric weaker combat proficiencies than the dnd 3.5 standard? (I’m talking about armor and shield proficiencies).
Cheers

Are you also taking into account the extra proficiencies that the cleric gets from domains?

The 3.5 cleric could be butt naked and still be better than the other classes. I wouldn’t worry about it to much.

Could be, some are. You should read about Forgotten Realms “Sharess”. But anyway, most still need that Holy-symbol.

I’m quite familar with FR clerics and Sharess. Liked her alot in 2nd ed Faith and Avatars. Had a female player and we were kinda sweet on her and she really liked cats and Bast/Sharesss is also the goddess of cats in FR.
I owuld like to see DS clerics removed away form the core cleric alot more. Earth maybe gets medium armor, the others get light armor and some class abilities or something like that.

@Kamelion: Which proficiencies? Domain powers also exist in 3.5 standard. And you proficient in one special weapon because of your deity. That means that you’ve got one weapon proficiency more in DS3 and two extra class skills. But that hardly matchs the mentioned armor and shield proficiencies. Or is there something I haven’t seen?

No, those are the ones I was referring to. You’re right that it’s far less than the standard D&D cleric. It might be the case that this has been rectified in the upcoming r7. Otherwise I’d houserule some changes.

The cleric will have the same proficiencies as the PHB cleric in R7. The R6 cleric had armor and shield proficiencies from domains – a flavor element that we´ve changed in R7 to make the clerics more balanced.

Its a good idea Jon. The bonus armor proficiencies didn’t make much sense as domain abilities.

I’ve got a question about the granted power of the Earthen Embrace domain. Maybe I’m out line but what the hell is “your depth underground” ???? If somebody can explain it to me, I’ll be happy! Thank’s.

Boiquouily,
The answer to your question is how far under the ground a character is from the surface.

Ah! I feel stupid! Thank’s sysane!

Zaardnar, from a setting perspective it made kind of sense at one point (no heavy armor for freedom loving air clerics etc), but the imbalance and added complexity were undesired.

@ Jon: You wrote that the Cleric will have the same proficiencies in ds3.r7 as the cleric of the core rules. Now, I’ve seen that he hasn’t. A mistake or on purpose?

That´s an error. Will be corrected in illustrated version.

I realize that I’m a bit late and most have probably gone to 4th Ed by now, but the Cleric hs always been one of the main reasons I can’t get into Darksun. Going back into the older editions stuff, the class is pretty confussing as to what they get, and seemed very restricted morally to what the DM felt a cleric should act like (elementally).
The other thing is that Druids just make way better “elemental Priests”, not bein so restricted to any single element, having more elemental spells naturally, and much more often, and much better ability to survive out in the wild wth their other class talents.
Here is my suggestion for the Cleric class. Make them spontanious casters. They get there domains, and entire Cleric spell list, normal spells per day (-1/spell level) and they can cast any of them just like a DnD warmage in Complete Arcane, except that they can add Metamagic without any increased casting time, and are still restricted from casting certain spells. You could also change the class name away from Cleric to something like Mystic, (though this is not so great due to the DragonLance Mystic), Wanderer, Holy Man, or something like that.The reason I say this is because,Clerics and DS Clerics are very different in nearly all facets of the class. Clerics are (un)holy crusaders for a church or deity, similar to Paladins, and that concept just doesn’t work for the Elemental Priests. It carries to much misleading concepts, and when you really get into the class, as far as what basically represents, why not just play a Druid?

Have you read the 2e Dark Sun accessory Earth, Air, Water & Fire and the 3.5 Dark Sun Core rules? Both do a great job describing how an elemental cleric can be role played.
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As for druids making better elemental priests, the two classes fill two very distinctive roles on Athas. Druids promote and protect nature as a whole and not bound to single element. Clerics worship and promote a specific element usually at the expense of all others.
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Again, I recommend reading EAW&F and 3.5 DS Core rules and you’ll see the differences.

No, I get that. I’ve been using the stuff from Dungeon and Dragon mags. and reading the old school boxed set stuff I got a while. I’m not trying to run your BBQ, just elpful suggestions. I guess what I am saying is that the Dark Sun Cleric has always suffered the ago old 3.0 problem that a fire priest, for example, is just not very fiery. In one sense it is even worse in Dark Sun but in another they are slightly better. The Dark Sun Domains do a better job of making the Elemental priest more “Elemental”, but the mechanics of the base Cleric just do not work very well. This is not a Dark Sun thing. The entire concept of Domains means that they really get 1 fire spell per spell level, and sometimes not even that. Druids just do a better job of being a elemental priest, because they get a lot of “elemetal spells” on their class list.
If you made Clerics spontaneous casters, that means thier Domain spells become part of their spell list, (i.e. they can cast them as much as they like per day). It also takes away a lot of the worst parts of playing “the healer”, because they don’t have to pick which of their “good spells” they waste on cures. It also makes them more like 2nd ed Dark Sun Clerics that had access to a larger sphere of their element, makes them much different than both the Druid and Templar.
As for the name, I was just saying that Cleric brings a lot of preconceived notions that Dark Sun does not use. In my opinion, if you go into it wanting to play a Cleric, you will probably be very disapointed, (because a lot of the things you might like do not apply), so to just make it a new class might be a better option. But that is just my opinion from having that and similar problems.

I see where you’re coming from now. Having clerics not being able to spontaneously cast cure or inflict spells, but having them spontaneously cast any spell on their chosen domain spell lists would be step in making them “more elementally” attuned.

You could do that and it would be a huge improvment for the class.
I was just thinking about making them pure spontanious, especially in Athas where Create Water or Endure Elements could be a much more life saving ability than any cure, but not something you would want to memorize daily. If you make them spontanious with their entire PHB Cleric Spell list + Dark Sun Domain, (minus energy offensive spells counter to their patron element and the normal alignment prohibited spells). Either one does a great deal to help the class. The second option just means clerics do not have to decide between say Divine Power or Cure this-or-that, making the class a lot more fun to play rather than a hassle. The trouble is really with the Cleric in 3.x, rather than Dark Sun, it just hurts a little more in the Dark Sun campaign.

Hey Beckett, have you checked out the elementalist prestige class on r7 yet?