Greetings!
I am converting some of the Dark Sun monsters in the original boxed set Wanderer’s Guide. I am using the Monster Creator on DNDInsider to make them formatted.


I have to admit that I am finding this hard. First, there are probably some other things that need to be finished, such as weapons and armor, before monsters are done. In some ways, I am almost creating them in a vacuum. It’s a start.


Second, it’s tough because many monsters are supposed to be more tough than I think can be done for their level. For example, a Gaj is supposed to be a tough fight, almost a solo monster. I have something that’s tough, and nearly straight from the book, but not play tested. It reads well but I don’t know how it will play yet.


Is anyone else doing this? Anyone have thoughts or ideas on what they have done? I understand they will need tweaks, again especially depending on how weapons and armor come out, but I don’t think those will effect them that much, if I understand 4E’s design philosophy.


edg

Okay, that was a poor entry. I should probably just post what I did here for discussion.

What I am finding out is converting the monsters to 4E is tough on several levels. First, many monsters are supposed to be tough but I think making all Dark Sun monsters Elite or Solo doesn’t work for me. However, that’s how many monsters are described. For some, that can work. For others, I can see me making them less solo and more clan or family friendly to give them more attackers.

Second, it depends on the role that I want them to fit in 4E, in terms of tiers. In converting the gith, I made them tough heroic level monsters, starting around level 5 and going up to 7, iirc. However, someone else might want them as low as 3rd level and others might see them as low paragon monsters. So, there is definitely some subjectivity in this exercise.

I haven’t done much more but I am happy with what I have. Again, this is more long term for me as I don’t see this happening before next year, when my current game is finished.

edg

I have seen a few diffrent styles of monster creation be tested in games I have played, and from my perspective as a player, as a GM, and as a general rules system focused gamer I think the best way to make 4E monsters is to ‘reskin’ the ones that already exist.
If you want a Gith to be a level 5 monster then use the Bugbear warior stats and drop 10 of them on a 5th level party. If you want Gith to be a 3rd level monster use the Goblin Skulcleaver stats but call it a Gith and hit your 5th level party with 30 of them. On the other hand if you want to put a 12th level earth drake kick some heroic tier partie’s ass all over the map give the Flesh Golem a new hat and play on.
Dark Sun has its own theme, and its own style, and its own challenge rating. NEVER should a 4E Dark Sun ‘encounter’ feel like a regular 4E encounter, where the PCs line up and just shoot down all the monsters like normal, they should be seriously threatened every encounter. If you have to drop twice the monsters, use higher level, or only field elites to get that done? so be it.
The stats for monsters in just the core monsters manual are diverse and useful enough that you dont need new ones, just rename and repaint old ones. At most swap out one ability for another from a different monster, or one ‘effect’ for another.
EDIT: And for the love of god never use minions in darksun, just use another brute if you need filler anything that dies in one hit wouldn’t make it an hour past dawn let alone into a fight.

evildmguy, I am making monsters. You should be able to find a thread on Arena about this, dating from months ago. You can reach me by email through pennarin@gmail.com
Has been converted:
B’rohg
Jhakar
Dark Spiders
Kirre
T’Chowb
Strine
Giths
Gaj
Belgoi
Wraith
Fael
Namech
Morg
- -
hendell, sounds like you missed the point of roles. Minion, elite, and solo are also roles, juste like skirmisher is. PCs are fighting minions lead by a powerful solo angel, the boss of the encounter. Couple of adventures later and the PCs are higher level, and a new encounter’s boss is now a more powerful creature…but guess who the minions are this time? The same angels that the solo boss once was. A standard monster can be rewriten as a minion, elite, or solo, and a solo can be rewritten to be a standard, etc. It depends on what you need for your adventure and what is appropriate for the PCs’ current level. Minions have their place on Athas. Take a second look at their definition, DMG 54.

While it is quite possible that I missed the point, and my previous comment did not clearly explain my understanding of the minion role in 4E nor why I feel it has no place in Darksun, or any other environment where the setting should be a challenge allow me to quote from the very same page reference you suggested. “The players get to enjoy carving through the mob like a knife through butter, feeling confident and powerful.”
First off I disagree with this statement in general, for all gaming environments on a few levels. Primarily the suggestion that I as a player need to cut through a mob of idiots periodically for no purpose other than making me feel like my character is powerful is frankly insulting, my character is precisely as powerful as I want it to be within the scope of the system and game level the DM wants. Secondly the suggestion that such an event should be addressed with the system mechanics at all is simply insane, if some paragon half giant wants to go kill a dozen civilians and nobody high enough level to stop them is near by, its done, move on, focus on the aftermath.
Even if you wish to see value in the Minion role as described here, for the purpose of amusement and silly ‘bonus kills’ it is still very hard for me to accept that this is an appropriate way to run a Dark Sun game, the world is designed to be deadly, to be challenging, that is what makes it interesting, along with an impressive setting developed around this core theory. To water down the Dark Sun experiance by offering the PCs a free ride is a disservice to the setting that I do not think it apropriate for us to suggest.

Penn: I will look for them and see what you did. I have seen a few versions of some monsters now and am curious as to the ideas we all had.
Hendell: Your game is your own. I have found that minions are fun, to run and to slay. At least, my players love to slay them.
I think they can work in Dark Sun. In re-reading The Verdant Passage, there seemed to be many different kinds of templars. There was Tithian and other higher ranking ones, the elite half giant guards and then there were the mooks, or minions, that came off like fifth or sixth sons, or daughters, who survived and needed something to do but weren’t good enough to channel Kalak’s power. They are given a mace and the cossack and told to keep order and that they report to so and so. They are effective in combat, they just don’t take much to drop. And least, that’s how I see them. Whatever works for you!
Thanks!
edg

Thanks for exaplaining, hendell. But note there is a difference between stating DS should not make use of minions, and stating minions do not have a place in 4e. Unless one phases out minions from the game, then they would still have their place in DS. Everytime you need PCs to kill NPCs with one strike, basically assassinate them (taking out guards in the dead of night, for example), then 1 hit point minions are the way to go.

Penn: That’s an awesome use for minions! The guards that need to go down quick. Good thought!

edg