So … I’m looking over the initial races, and what I can see in the Monster manual … and I’m not sure we can really pull off the half-giant as a playable race. Not without drastic alterations.
Ability score boosts go way down. Course, they don’t have the penalties they used to either.
Reach was a huge factor in 3e, and that probably hasn’t changed. Large(Tall) has reach 2, just as before.
Now, in the MM there are a couple of just off-large races, like the minotaur. They run at about 7-8 feet. The size related ability seems to be one that let’s them wield Large weapons as if they were Medium weapons. Which is cool. But I don’t think we can justify making a 10-12’ creature Medium. It’s arguable as to whether or not we can convincingly “shrink” them. I don’t think so.
I think we’re definately better off focusing on other races first, before we look into ways to deal with the half-giant. It might just have to go the way of the gnome (although the gnome is still playable, if you look in the back of the MM.)

HGs could get a +1 square bonus to shift enemies, or +2 to checks to shift enemies. Also, proficiency with certain big weapons, or a +1 bonus vs AC when using weapons from a certain list.

“It might just have to go the way of the gnome (although the gnome is still playable, if you look in the back of the MM.)”
Funny. There are no gnomes on Athas! Nibenay was successful!
Appologies. I couldn’t resist. :oP

There are no living, breathing gnomes on Athas. Undead gnomes, on the other hand, are probably a dime a dozen in places like the Dead Lands. ;-)
Back on topic, though. It sounds like, in order to include the half-giant as a playable race in 4E, it would have to resemble less the 3.5E half-giant from athas.org and more the 3.5E half-giant from the XPH, yes? In that case, I think I would prefer keeping them off the playable race list, because I really didn’t like the XPH half-giant.

I haven’t had a chance to get much into the MM yet, but from the browsing I did, I definitely got the feeling making a playable HG (that feels like a DS HG) is going to be tough. Focusing on the other races (which are looking to be pretty simple) is definitely a good idea for now.
I’m a little concerned that all we’ll be able to do is come up with a “best effort” that will still be pretty unplayable and make it available with a bunch of warning signs to the DM all around it.

Half-giant are not medium. Dont dare put them medium! Use any medium you want, but do not create them as medium creature!
That’s a medium post.
;-)

I agree with Grummore, making HG’s medium seems to lose something. I’m not sure of the rules yet, but it sounds like they just won’t be able to be playable, which seems like a slight step up from 3.5e where the attempt was to make everything playable..

It’s tough when their is no rule to play Large creature in the PHB1. Maybe you can go with a HG Race that cost feats if you want to keep it large. But the Minotaur PC entry is inspiring for Half-Giant. I like the charge and the oversized for no cost.
Half-Giant (This Large Race cost 1 ’’racial’’ feat)
RACIAL TRAITS
Average Height: 10’ – 12’
Ability Scores: +4 Str, +2Con
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skills Bonuses: +2 Intimidate, +2 Endurance
Giant Size: Since you large size, large weapon equip as one-hand but all non-magical equipment is double cost for you. Your normal Reach is 1.
Giant Heritage: Your Healing surge value is equal to 1/4 you max HP + your Constitution modifier.
Brutal Slam: You can use brutal slam as an encounter power.
Brutal Slam: Half-Giant Racial Power
You stretch yourself and slam an enemy with a powerful swing of your arm.
Encounter
Standard Action Melee 2
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Increase to +2 at 11th level, +4 at 21st level.
Hit: 2d4 + Strength modifier damage, and the target is
knocked prone.
Increase the damage to 4d4 + Strength modifier modifier at 11th
level and 6d4 + Strength modifier at 21st level.

If Half-Giant are Large, the Squeezing rule will apply to this race often.

What do you think of a feats cost for more powerful race, like large one?

Thri-Kreen (Cost: 1 racial feat)
Average Height: 7’; 10’ to 11’ Long
Ability Scores: + 2 Dex, + 2Wis
Size: Medium
Speed: 8 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Thri-Kreen, Common
Skills Bonuses: + 2 Nature, + 2 Athletics
Insect body: Thri-Kreen usually need magical items resizing if taken from humanoid.
Trance: Rather than sleep, thri-kreen enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits other races gain from taking a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Thri-Kreen Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the Gythka and Chatkcha.
4-Handed: You have 4 hands to carry or manipulate stuff. You can only apply one bonus between a two-handed weapon or the shield in combat.
Venomous Saliva: You can use Venomous Saliva as an Encounter power.
Venomous Saliva: Thri-Kreen Racial Power
You bite an opponent and your venom cause paralysis.
Encounter (special)
Standard Action Melee 1
Attack: Con vs. Fortitude
Increase to + 2 at 11th level, + 4 at 21st level.
Hit: 1d4 + Con modifier damage, victim become immobilized (save ends).
Increase to 3d4+ Con at 11th level, 5d4 + Con at 21st level.
Special: Cannot use more venomous saliva than Con modifier per day.

‘Cuse my ignorance, but since when has the Thri-Kreen been large?

Youre right, my mistake. The entry is now ok.

Two suggestions.
I was never a fan of 12’ tall half-giants, so the first is a medium-sized version.
Half-Giant
Average Height: 7’6”-8’
Average Weight: 350-400 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Giant Fury: When you are bloodied, you gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls.
Oversized: You can use weapons of your size or one size larger than you as if they were your size.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.
—-—-—-—--
If you are fan of the large size, then there is this.
Half-Giant
Average Height: 10’-12’
Average Weight: 1400-1600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Large: You have a reach of 2, may use weapons of your size and your base unarmed attack is 1d6. Also, your carrying capacity is doubled.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.
____

I like this version of the Half-Giant, but I don’t think it is quite there yet.
—
Half-Giant
Average Height: 10’-12’
Average Weight: 1400-1600 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Large: You have a reach of 2, may use weapons of your size and your base unarmed attack is 1d6. Also, your carrying capacity is doubled.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.
—-
What I see above is a race that has only two racial abilities, it is large and it has an encounter power called Giants resolve. compared to other races this is pretty week, even the half elf gets five abilities, Dilettante, Dual Heritage, Group Diplomacy, Low light vision, and an extra language. These are not very powerful except Dilettante of course, and though large seems to be really cool it costs more to get it equipment, it drinks more water in the dessert and it has to squeeze into very small places. These things are not written into the rules because there are no large races in Core, but it will have to be to play DS4 because we have a large race. we can look at those things in a bit. The Dragon born get basically three, The Eladrin 7 and so on. Looking at this I think we should give them two more abilities that make them stand out. One is +4 Strength and +4 constitution, I would argue that this is two and not one but some may not see it that way. the other would be Giant Origin: Your ancestors were Giants so you are considered a Giant for the purposes of effects that relate to creature origin. so the new write up would be this.
—-—-——-
Half-Giant
Average Height: 10’-12’
Average Weight: 1400-1600 lb.
Ability Scores: +4 Strength, +4 Constitution
Size: Large
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Normal
Languages: Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Athletics, +2 Intimidate
Large: You have a reach of 2, may use weapons of your size and your base unarmed attack is 1d6. Also, your carrying capacity is doubled.
Giant Origin: Your ancestors were Giants so you are considered a Giant for the purposes of effects that relate to creature origin.
Giant Resolve: You can use giant resolve (as per warforged resolve) as an encounter power.
—-—-——-
This to me seems desirable enough to play but not to overpowering compared to other races that I would never play anything else.
Tim

I think this could work, although I would suggest removing the reach, or at least being more specific that the reach of 2 does not threaten 2 squares but only the adjacent squares like pole arms. But really, the attributes and damage die upgrade are enough, the reach will make this race “THE HITTER” race and make all others distinctly sub par. Also puting a reminder about the extra water consumption/armor cost in the race entry will be important.

I think in 4th a reach only threatens if it is a threating reach and if I remember large reach is not. I do agree that this will be are hitter race, I sort of veiwed them as the race that replaces dragonborn in our campaign. As far as cost for large versions of equipment I think a 1.5 multiplier is enough. The race is common enough to warent the increase to be compitarivly priced but not overly priced so much that the 100 starting gold makes it imposinle to buy eqipment for the character.

On my side, for Half-Giant i have give them the following:
+4 Str, +2 Con
Giant Size: Since you large size, large weapon equip as one-hand but all non-magical equipment is double cost for you. Your normal Reach is 2.
Giant Heritage: Your Healing surge value is equal to 1/4 you max HP + your Constitution modifier.
And the Warforged Resolve as Encounter Power.

Using the Dragonborn form of Hit point increase is a good Idea but if that is the case i would drop the Warforged resolve. If balance seems to be a problem the reduction of the Con bonus is still OK, especially when using the Dragonborn Healing surge ability. as far as double the cost I don’t know we still want players to be able to play the character and 100cp is not going to be allot to buy many thing. at 2 x cost a suit of leather or hide is going to be 50 and 60 respectfully and scale will be 90. Weapons will cost an average of 20 so that is most of the half giants resources right there. He will not be able to get scale and a weapon and being that he is easier to draw a line of site on he will suffer from strikers because of his lack of equipment choice. I think a .5 increase is all that is really needed to give him a small hurt. Yes he gets to have a non threatening reach of 2 but this does not allow him a greater flank or a greater range of opportunity attacks only the ability to hit things at a distance which is not very different than a ranged attacker. Also, he has to squeeze most of the time and that gives him a -5 to his attacks, he grants combat advantage and halves his speed. Add to this the fact that he is a perfect target for Ranged striker attacks. Making him a damage magnet. Large size has a balance to it that I don’t feel we need to go way over the top with by doubling equipment costs. or at least that is my opinion.
Tim

The double cost is why you see in pictures not much Half-Giant with armor and more only with big weapon. And it’s only a double cost for non-magical/psionic items. So a Scale Armor +1 will cost the same for them and also a large longsword +1. At level 4-5, you wont see much drawback from the double cost.

This is true you are going to be tight on what you can buy at first and the more I think about it it would be easier to just double cost. then it sticks closer to the 2/5 rule of modifiers.
Tim

Half Giant
Ability scores: +4 Strength. (I am hesitant to add or subtract any more)
Size: Tall Medium ( Medium with 1 reach)
Speed: 6
Giants reach:
The character gains 1 reach.
Giant’s Fortitude:
A half giant always receives hit points at each new level as if he rolled the maximum.
Prodigious Strength:
Any knock back attacks the character makes adds 1 to the number of squares pushed back.
Giant’s Heritage:
Your healing surge value is equal to one-quarter of your maximum hit points+your constitution modifier.
Racial Feats: (Taken later in Character progression, some may be taken at creation)
Brute power: (tier 1, can only be taken if a martial character, and if he already has power attack)
When Weilding a 2handed weapon any Enemy successfully Damaged by the Character after being hit by a basic attack, becomes dazed.
Awesome power: (tier 2)
When Weilding a 2handed weapon any Enemy successfully Damaged by the Character after being hit by a basic attack, becomes Knocked Prone.
Bulwark:
While the character has a shield equipped, he becomes a virtual wall, shielding his friends with his massive bulk. All adjacent characters can gain an Ac benefit as if they have a sheild equipped, this stacks if the character recieving the benefit already has a shield equipped.
Just fooling around. Opinions?

On second thought:
Those racial feats seem a little overpowered. Mebbe add a ref save to avoid?.

You no longer roll for hit points per level.

Hmmm.
Anybody got any ideas for another “extra/more” hp racial?

A race specific toughness upgrade, or paragon feat could be an option (basically some races can take toughness twice). But I think the enhanced healing surge value will more than make up for the inherent toughness of any race, particularly one with a constitution bonus.
I have been thinking about the ‘stronger races’ idea and I am absolutely convinced that any race made available to a PC needs to fit within the default power level, no feat requirement, no special fun stuff because they are socially inept. That said I think we need to also seriously consider a set of race specific feats for each race that ‘unlocks’ the races advantages, each feat needs to be no more than 20% stronger than a non restricted feat, but we can have as many of them as we want, with prerequisites, trees, upgrades, paragon racial feats, even epic racial feats.
In the end those could add up to a fairly decent net bonus (like dwarf with axes) but still fairly limiting ‘sticking to the stereotype’ also that stereotype is what gives the social penalties, thus building a self reinforcing effect. The net result is if you want something ‘extra’ on your PC race, make it a feat, and call it special.

“particularly one with a constitution bonus.”
If they get one. With a +4 str modifier wouldnt +2 con be too much? 4thed seems to give all the race +4 bonus attributes and no penalties. Will A half Giant break that mold? +6 means they need a knock elsewhere.
Mebbe less racial abilities? Or no Con bonus but a racial that makes up the extra hp?
I was thinking in the car today that mebbe when a half giant takes the toughness feat they move up one category.
Meaning at character creation they count as level 11 for the purposes of the feat and 21 at level 11, etc.
Thoughts?
Also the “im too large”, “need lotsa water”, “am a retard” balances sucked ass. Id rather do away with them and make the half giant more playable. Mebbe reduce their size a litte? 8 – 9 feet? Still pretty damn big.

Also the “im too large”, “need lotsa water”, “am a retard” balances sucked ass. Id rather do away with them and make the half giant more playable. Mebbe reduce their size a litte? 8 – 9 feet? Still pretty damn big.

But i lurves me some half giants. sniff sniff.
Mebbe just give them an extra square of reach. Keep the weapon size rules the same as medium creatures.
Give them a total +4 attribute bonus with no penalties. (however that get allocated)
Dedicate at least 1 of their racial abilities to gain that reach.
Mebbe a second ability that is healing surge/ hp flavored?
And thats it?
Its tough enough to make the large/reach work, so well prolly need to drop some of their traditional bonuses, and pair the half giant concept down to its essentials. And to be honest the large weaps as medium rule isnt that essential to the concept. Mebbe allow that to the half giant caharcters as a higher up feat with a bunch of requirements. So that they have to sacrifice some things in order to have it.

I’m getting monster vibes as well, flip. Same for kreens. Hang in there.