phanuel
3 post(s)
|
Is anyone else working on the mul? I started kicking around the idea for it, and decided to write up what I had and see if anyone could offer any constructive criticism. Mul 4ed Ability Scores: +2 Strength, (I was thinking Constitution, but since Strength and Constitution are paired up, a +2 in Constitution seemed a little redundant. I was also considering +2 Wisdom just because the dwarf had it) Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common Skill Bonuses: +2 Endurance, (+2 Intimidate or +2 Athletics?) Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either dwarf or human as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for muls), as long as you meet any other requirements. (I just cut and pasted this from the half-elf as it seemed to mimic the Dwarven Blood of the 3.5 version.) I was thinking of something to mimic the tirelessness and resilience of the mul, but the bonus to Endurance seemed to accomany that. Short of making it an automatic trained skill, I didn’t know what crunch to accompany that bit of fluff.) Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
|
|
|
quarrum
1 post(s)
|
I’ve thought Hobgoblin Resilience would be a good ability for muls since I first saw it:
Hobgoblin Resilience (immediate reaction, when the hobgoblin suffers an effect that a save can end; encounter) The hobgoblin makes a saving throw against the triggering effect.
It could represent, as you say, their tirelessness and resilience.
|
|
|
Nelsormensch
13 post(s)
|
That’s similar to what I was thinking, but I was thinking something a little closer to the 4E warforged, stati-wise.
+2 Str, +2 Con, +2 Endurance and +2 Athletics. Dual heritage looks fine, and they should get some other cool racial encounter power. Not sure what yet … the Hobgoblin Resilience isn’t bad, but is there something more appropriate? Perhaps. I’ll post it if I come up with anything.
|
|
|
fallenakriel
64 post(s)
|
Yup stat as a Warforged. Dual-Heritage. To the ’’Mul/Hobgoblin’’ Resilience, you can add feat that boost and flavor that power.
|
|
|
yancke
54 post(s)
|
Mul Ability scores: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution Size: Medium Speed: 6 Vision: Normal Languages: Common, Dwarf Skill Bonuses: + 2 Endurance, +2 Athletics Racial Abilities:
“Tall and Stout” aka Dual Heritage: (see above) Sounds cool as flavour, but is only any good if there are dwarf/human racial feats that are any good.
Never Gives up: Reaction, encounter When Bloodied: When you have been succesfully dealt damage, you spend a healing surge. Add your Constitution Modifier to your Healing surge value.
Unbroken & unbent: If your character becomes dazed make an immediate Con save, if successful, you remove the daze effect. If your Character is knocked prone make an immediate Con save, If successful you are dazed instead.
Tempered Steel: Mul’s are renown for their determination as well as their violent tempers. Gain +2 to intimidate and +2 to will saves.
Mul’s resolve: (Encounter, Free action) The character gains a number of temporary Hp equal to his healing surge value.
Slow to anger: When Bloodied Mul’s gain +1 bonus and +2 to damage with any melee weapon strike. The effects persist until the end of the combat once triggered.
No idea if these are cool. Once again just foolin around.
|
|
|
big_goon
10 post(s)
|
I’d like to point out something that I’ve noticed for all three added races, but I think I can make the strongest case for the Mul, so here it goes:
All the non-human races in the PhB gain a bonus to one physical stat, and one mental stat (with the exception of Tielfings that gain bonuses to two mental stats). By giving Muls two “good” physical stat boosts, DMs will probably start seeing a Mul fighter in every campaign. Actually, all Muls will probably be fighter-types (paladin, ranger, warlord, etc) because this description seesm to heavily favour a fighting career. Now ask yourself this question: are all Muls fighters? or might one see Mul Wizards, Warlocks or Clerics walking around? I understand that Muls were raised in slave pits, but does that really make them more martial and less mentally adept than Dragonborn, or Dwarves?
I just think that you should reconsider giving Muls exclusively fighter-like powers, skills and stat boosts. This not only makes the game unbalanced, but less interesting. I’d like to recommend giving the Mul +2 Con and +2 Int instead (con because of their heavy-set dwarven ancestry, and intelligence from their tactical human ancestry – phanuel recommended Wis, but I like Int better). Maybe +2 intimidate instead of +2 athletics (Intimidate: learned form the slave pits). Other non-fighter-like bonuses might be: +1 to saving throws and/or +5 to thirst/starvation saving throws; and maybe the dragonborn healing surge bonus (1/4 max hp + con)... these bonus would benefit any class and are rather Mul-like (IMHO).
Only problem I see, is that there’s going to be a lot of Mul Warlocks… so maybe another combination of stat boosts: like +2 str/+2 int might be better.
My 2 cents
|
|
|
zardnaar
162 post(s)
|
+2 strenght and con is actually a drawback as they bot influence fort defense. Thats why Eledrin get +2 dex and int since they have one of the best racial powers. Most darksun fighters/galdiators in 2nd and 3.5 ed I saw were Muls anyway. May as well keep the tradition going.
|
|
|
hendell
99 post(s)
|
The Mul race having 2 physical attributes is actually a disadvantage because both of them are of the ‘fortitude’ subtype and thus have more overlap that most races, even some of the ones that are dual physical. There are quite a few valuable perspectives on the ‘other’ races in teh back of the MM in the race template sections that must be taken into account.
As for the question of Mul’s being focused to combative paths in DS, thats not a problem over 90% of the Mul NPCs or characters in books are strength and ‘hitting stuff’ focused so it is not a deviation from the setting appropriate material. There will be exceptions of other classes but they are the exceptions, not the rule.
|
|
|
zardnaar
162 post(s)
|
Hendall we must have more or less posted the same thing at the same time:)
|
|
|
big_goon
10 post(s)
|
That’s cool, and I completely agree: the only Muls I know from the literature are combat oriented. They are traditionally a combat oriented race. Just pointing out that none of the other PhB races are combat oriented – or at least not as much. Even dwarves and dragonborn could make decent warlocks, wizards or ranged rangers, and they are traditionally combat melee oriented too.
|
|
|
hendell
99 post(s)
|
Dwarfs frequently have a cleric or runesmith type character in the racial demographics, granted they are often seen as a fighter capable race but I would be SHOCKED if someone thought Dwarfs were as combat focused as a Mul, as for the Dragon born’s cha bonus instead of another combat stat, there is little previous reference for dragonborn, and all of it points at a high charisma as at least a secondary capability.
The point that the PHB has selected races that do not have a single minded combat focus is 100% valid, intentionaly has each race been given options, that is why they are the ‘generic’ races. The less common races that show up as racial templates in the MM have considerably more focus into one path or another, and a lot less versatility. Bugbear, Minotaur, Warforged, Orc all put themselves very quickly into the ‘hitter’ types, be it fighter, brutal rogue, or even ranger. The Gnome or Changeling(AKA Doppelganger) are both considerably mentaly focused, having almost no ability or advantage that points them in the ‘fighter’ path.
On that note the non generic races we are making for DS4 should have no restraint on being a little bit less versatile than the generic races in the PHB (that are largely still available as PCs).
|
|
|
big_goon
10 post(s)
|
Agree with everything you said hendell. Traditionally, Muls have been slave labourers/warriors.
“On that note the non generic races we are making for DS4 should have no restraint on being a little bit less versatile than the generic races in the PHB (that are largely still available as PCs).”
How much less versatile? Are you planning on making a PC race or a MM race? They are not the same thing for some DMs…
When I run a campaign, I’m not going to allow PCs to take MM races (with exceptions in some cases) since I’m worried about balance and limitations. MM races are for the DM. So I have a personal vested interest in making Muls a generic race, so that my players have more choice in character classes.
|
|
|
hendell
99 post(s)
|
That is a good question, I would think we can get the Mul firmly into the realm of the PHB PC races, I would like to see the Half Giant and the Thri-Kreen used in games, but I honestly think they would be better designed to fit with the MM races like Bugbear, Minotaur, Drow, and Kobold in terms of power level, but with the detail level of a full PC race, so I would call them MM PC races and not PHB PC races.
|
|
|
Shei-Nad
13 post(s)
|
Good points here, and I think I’d keep it pretty much as some suggested.
Mul
Abilities: +2 Strength, +2 Constitution (redundant on fortitude, but both have direct bonuses. Strength affects attack and damage, and Constitution affects hit points and healing) Medium size. Speed: 6 squares. Vision: Low-light (they had that in 2e, and from the prism pentad, muls can see in the dark as their dwarf parents) Language: Common. Skills: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance (Athletics over Intimidate fits and differenciates them from Half-Giants) Resilience. (as Hobgoblin resilience) Tireless. (new ability, not all that powerful, but can be useful and adds to the mul’s reputation for endurance)
Tireless: Racial utility power. Daily. Reroll an Endurance roll. You must keep the second roll, even if it is lower.
|
|
|
zardnaar
162 post(s)
|
Heres my Mul I coplted ages ago.
Mul Average Height 6’-6’ 6” Average Weight 140-180lb Ability Scores: +2 Constitution, Strength Size: Medium Speed: 6 squares Vision: Low Light Languages: Common, Dwarven Skill Bonus: +2 Athletics, +2 Endurance Battle Ready: You gain a +2 bonus to initiative Mul Resilience: You can use mul resilience as a racial power Mul Resilience Mul Racial Power You shake off an effect that would cripple a lesser warrior Encounter Immediate Reaction Personal Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end Effect: You make a saving throw against the effect.
|
|
|
Shei-Nad
13 post(s)
|
zardnaar, Similar conversion. Here are a few thoughts. Height: seems a bit tall, though I think the original tables from 2e supports this, I’d probably make them a bit shorter. Weight: I’d put them way over 200 lbs of muscle on average. Languages: While they do have a dwarf parent, most muls would probably never get to pick up the language, being raised in slave pens. Those rare free-born muls who get raised by both parents are certainly the exception. Battle-ready: An interesting ability. I still prefer finding an endurance based mechanic to represent the Mul Exertion abilities of 2e.
|
|
|
zardnaar
162 post(s)
|
The height and weight was taken from the 2nd ed material but I think the weight ere has been mixed up with another races.
|
|
|
monkeyalpha
3 post(s)
|
Consider that most races have combat related racial powers. One of the 4e designers talked about the Eladrin’s racial features possibly being more potent than other races because their ability score boosts were both to Reflex. It’s something to consider when building a core DS race like the Mul.
Perhaps represent their innate endurance with a +1 to fortitude? Or give them a racial power that grows with feats?
Mul Resilience Mul Racial Power You shake off an effect that would cripple a lesser warrior Encounter Immediate Reaction Personal Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end Effect: You make a saving throw against the effect.
Mul Improved Resilience Mul Racial Power (heroic) You shake off an effect that would cripple a lesser warrior Encounter Immediate Reaction Personal Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end Effect: You choose to end one effect that a saving throw could end.
Mul Greater Resilience Mul Racial Power (paragon) You shake off an effect that would cripple a lesser warrior Encounter Immediate Reaction Personal Trigger: You suffer an effect that a save can end Effect: You choose to end one effect that a saving throw could end. If you’re bloodied you gain regeneration equal to your Con mod until you are no longer bloodied, until you fall unconscious or the encounter ends (or 5 minutes pass).
Or perhaps include something for them that allows them an immediate save against being dazed, or slowed. An upgrade feat that would allow them an immediate save to reduce being stunned to dazed and immobilized to slowed?
|
|
|
zardnaar
162 post(s)
|
I didn’t bother with a +1 bonus to fortitude defence as they already get that off their strength or con score (whatever is higher). I think I based the Mul on the Hobgoblin mechanics in the back of the MM.
|