Starting Level

23 Jul, 2008 02:28 PM

kye_tyrad 28 post(s)

For 4e DS, what level would characters start with. With all of the added powers that players have, should they still start at level 3?

23 Jul, 2008 05:42 PM

flip Administator 88 post(s)

Starting level should be wherever the DM is comfortable at.

23 Jul, 2008 06:39 PM

yancke 54 post(s)

That does mean that level modifiers for Player character races become viable. (hgiant+kreen)
Not sure i like that aproach but it could balance out that fact that all monsters might get wild talents.

24 Jul, 2008 12:17 AM

hendell 99 post(s)

DS 4e should not have the ‘all characters start at 3rd level’ component that DS 2e and DS 3e needed. the 4e system takes out the weakness of first level, and the power spike of 2nd level so we dont need to account for that. As to the question of ECL on races, for much the same reason that is not a viable tactic, the level pattern is no longer of predictable value so you can not assign a value of ECL that will hold true throughout the game.
The better option for highly non human races is to add race prerequisite feats that focus the race in the direction it should go, not as requirements, but as stylistic options for PC advancement, just like any other feat. Using the existing race prerequisite feats as an example of power level and effect limits.

24 Jul, 2008 01:18 PM

flip Administator 88 post(s)

Hendell says it well.
I am extremely hesitant to muck with base power levels in the way that ECLs did, until I see some precident from Wizards. There’s a lot of math that’s gone into the system, and skipping levels skews the equations in ways that I don’t yet understand.
Using racial feats to unlock more potent abilities is actually not too far out of line with the old “at 5th level, you …” abilities from DS2. Difference being it’s not automatic, you have to buy them. But, for example, Kreen wouldn’t start with a poison bite, but can unlock it as an encounter power with a feat.

24 Jul, 2008 01:41 PM

yancke 54 post(s)

/agree. You guys make oodles of sense.

24 Jul, 2008 01:42 PM

redwulfe 73 post(s)

I definitely in line with this one. having a base balanced race is the goal and then you can power him up with racial feats if you choose to spend them but they are not required. it is like a racial feat cost that you pay later to unlock cool benefits.

Wulfe

28 Jul, 2008 01:26 PM

kye_tyrad 28 post(s)

I agree with Hendell on his assessment. I like how 4e balanced the characters more and gave the 1st level characters a starting chance.

Altered Beast

Voices

23 Jul, 2008 02:28 PM kye_tyrad 28 post(s)	For 4e DS, what level would characters start with. With all of the added powers that players have, should they still start at level 3?

23 Jul, 2008 05:42 PM flip Administator 88 post(s)	Starting level should be wherever the DM is comfortable at.

23 Jul, 2008 06:39 PM yancke 54 post(s)	That does mean that level modifiers for Player character races become viable. (hgiant+kreen) Not sure i like that aproach but it could balance out that fact that all monsters might get wild talents.

24 Jul, 2008 12:17 AM hendell 99 post(s)	DS 4e should not have the ‘all characters start at 3rd level’ component that DS 2e and DS 3e needed. the 4e system takes out the weakness of first level, and the power spike of 2nd level so we dont need to account for that. As to the question of ECL on races, for much the same reason that is not a viable tactic, the level pattern is no longer of predictable value so you can not assign a value of ECL that will hold true throughout the game. The better option for highly non human races is to add race prerequisite feats that focus the race in the direction it should go, not as requirements, but as stylistic options for PC advancement, just like any other feat. Using the existing race prerequisite feats as an example of power level and effect limits.

24 Jul, 2008 01:18 PM flip Administator 88 post(s)	Hendell says it well. I am extremely hesitant to muck with base power levels in the way that ECLs did, until I see some precident from Wizards. There’s a lot of math that’s gone into the system, and skipping levels skews the equations in ways that I don’t yet understand. Using racial feats to unlock more potent abilities is actually not too far out of line with the old “at 5th level, you …” abilities from DS2. Difference being it’s not automatic, you have to buy them. But, for example, Kreen wouldn’t start with a poison bite, but can unlock it as an encounter power with a feat.

24 Jul, 2008 01:41 PM yancke 54 post(s)	/agree. You guys make oodles of sense.

24 Jul, 2008 01:42 PM redwulfe 73 post(s)	I definitely in line with this one. having a base balanced race is the goal and then you can power him up with racial feats if you choose to spend them but they are not required. it is like a racial feat cost that you pay later to unlock cool benefits. Wulfe

28 Jul, 2008 01:26 PM kye_tyrad 28 post(s)	I agree with Hendell on his assessment. I like how 4e balanced the characters more and gave the 1st level characters a starting chance.