I wondered how you guys handle this..
Athasian bards have always seemed a little confusing to me. I can understand maybe a geisha, who is also an assassin, but having a whole class dedicated to that strange combination seems weird.

Do they pretend not to be bards? If I was a nobleman who needed to hire entertainment, I’d say “No thanks, I don’t need a bard or anyone dangerous, just a flute player, and a story teller, thanks.”

If a rival nobleman offered to make amends by sending a bard to entertain me, I’d be like “Dude, he’s a bard.. I don’t want him near me.”

Also, say you’re in a room with a nobleman, his slave bodyguard, a bard, and an artisan. The lights are blown out, and when they come back on, the nobleman’s dead. Gee, I wonder who did it?

I think the only way a bard could operate effectively is if they were undercover as a regular entertainer. The person who hired them would of course know they were a bard. I think a sex slave would be a far better assassin than an entertainer any day. I can picture a poison making whore way more easier than a poison making entertainer. So if you started counting prostitution as a form of bardic entertainment, how would you inspire your allies during battle? Show them the goods? Lick your lips, or whisper sweet nothings? Fake an org.. nevermind. I’m sure you guys could think of better examples than my dirty mind. There’s got to be other forms of entertainment that apply as well.

The idea that only musicians know the art of poison seems unrealistic. The most unique thing about the Athasian bard is the poisonmaking thing. So right off the bat, they’re saying all poisonmakers know how to entertain as well. Why? Couldn’t you be like " Dude, I work for the sorcerer king making poisons and antidotes. I have all these books or whatever, and can effectively learn about poison somehow. Why do I have to be an entertainer too? I work in a lab for winds’ sake."

What about giving the expert class access to poisonmaking as well? I think that’s what I’ll do. I want there to be just plain poisonmakers sometimes and just plain entertainers.

I was just reading what others had wrote, about poison being too expensive and the Bard class’ other problems. I’ll warn players about the poison thing. Bards will probably just be NPC’s in my campaign. Have you guys seen a real solid Alternate Bard? I only want to go with something different if it looks way better.

I’m not a huge fan of the Bard class either. So far, I have either used them primarily as a standard Bard (with magic, Lore, etc.) and mixed/matched some ideas from Athas for flavor, or more often (and my preference) just treat them like Rogues who specialize in that area (performance and poisons) to make them an assassin/entertainer. I also have Guilds set up so that the ‘Bards’ are more like a Thieves or Trade Guild that one has to apprentice into sort of like the mafia. And along those lines, once you’re in? You’re in. There is no leaving the Bard Guilds unless you suck dirt. Another fluff aspect that I do like about Bards is that it is considered rude (I.e. a major insult) to refuse a Bard when sent as a guest entertainer. The sociopolitical aspects of the upper-middle to upper class societies of Athas get taken for granted or forgotten all too often. There is a very 16th-17th century feel to the aristocracy, merchant lords, etc. that I love to see displaced into a rough, Conan-like environment. It almost reminds me of the Scottish Lords from Braveheart. They were all wearing skins and armor and such, wearing swords (as accessories, no doubt) and such, but trying at the same time to behave like dignified, sophisticated upper-classmen who deserved nobility and all its privileges.
There is a lot that can be done with the concept, but I would agree that the PC Class is left wanting.

I think the idea behind the Bard is that they are a low-caste people who, thanks to their refined tastes in art etc., have won a certain degree of respect and admiration among the elite classes. The elites see the bards as an outlet for their more ‘carnal’ interests: art, sex, general depravity. D&D’s critics prevented TSR from broaching the issue of sex in their books, but I think the unwritten suggestion was that Bards were also prostitutes.

As such, the Bards have are useful tools for the elites. Not all Bards are poisoners, but many are, and the ones likely to become heroes and antiheroes are probably going to be familiar with the darker side of the Bards’ craft.

There is historic and archetypal precedents for this kind of character. Gypsies and jews in the middle ages, and the bohemians of the renaissance and later periods were often stereotyped as being untrustworthy and unsavoury characters, but who were tolerated by the elites because of their considerable talents.

You’re also missing the point of subtlety. If a bard is actually good at what they do, it is entirely possible that the flute/story teller that you hired instead of the bard, is a bard. Moving speakers, fantastic story tellers, musicians, dancers, poets… all could be bards.

If the lights go out and the noble is dead, as the body guard who just offed his boss, I’d certainly point at the musician and call him the assassin. Someone offers to send me (assuming I am a noble) a musician… find my most disposable goon, or better yet a traitor and kill two birds with one stone. Not only did you send someone to kill me, but you killed my trusted ally. Now what can you offer me?

Bards, like rogues, are an excellent intrigue part of Athas, in my opinion… and the character playing a bard in my game is in fact a prostitute form of assassin.

I’ve had Bards as everything from classic ninja types to the noble’s food taster, to me bards are masters of not only poison and death but subterfuge as well.

Remember “acting” is one of the mentioned Perform categories. Musician, storyteller, prostitute, random street beggar, pub cook, barmaid, hired bodyguard, day laborer, household educator, any occupation could be a bard in disguise : throw some ranks at bluff, disguise, slight of hand, profession and craft then you have the beginnings of a terror. And then there are those who have truly mastered death’s call only to hunt you down openly (some ranger levels are advisable for this build)

yah bard are pretty odd

Hahaha, that first post was hilarious!!! Good point about the bard class not making much sense in the way it combines assassination & entertainment. I think the Dark Sun creators were just trying to modify the class to fit Athas better, since a cheerful singer inspiring his comrades wouldn’t fit the darker tone of the setting.

I think poisoners are a good addition to Athas, but I don’t see them as always (or often) being entertainers as well. For entertainment on Athas, I think the courtesan fits well. The “Rise and Fall of a Dragon King” novel begins with some decadent nobles attending a torture session of several slaves set to music as a evil form of entertainment, so I could see a torturer as a type of bard as well. The 2nd edition Bard’s Handbook had the “blade” kit for bards, which was a performer that used impressive sword twirling & knife throwing displays to entertain, and there was a similar kit in the 2nd edition Gladiator’s Handbook for Dark Sun called a “Jazst”.

For 3rd edition, there’s a bunch of prestige classes for Dark Sun that are basically different takes on the bard role – whether as an artist/entertainer, assassin, lore master, or courtier: Ambofari, Arcanist, Mystic Dancer, Procurer, Draqoman, Kuotagha, Poisonmaster & Shadow. The elves seem to have retained the closest thing to the musical bards of other worlds in the form of Battle Dancers & Element Singers, although these are actually cleric prestige classes.

Personally, I’d rework the Bard class by dropping the “Bardic Music” ability in favor of a “Manipulate” ability that produces similar effects as the PHB entry for Bardic Music but can be done through talking (using the Bluff skill) instead of the Perform skill. I’d keep the Fascination, Suggestion & Mass Suggestion effects, but ditch the countersong and the effects that inspire comrades in favor of ones that mimic the “charm person”, “sleep” and “fear” spells. That way the bard still has the same power to influence others, but you don’t have the ridiculous case where all poisoners on Athas just happen to be musicians. In fact, with enough ranks in Disguise & Bluff, the bard can impersonate almost anyone.