Forum: The Pit – Topic: Thinking like a Dragon King...

In my campaign I solved theses questions like this: 1- Alliance wizards just don’t fight the SK and his defilers all the time, insted they just try to survive and stay hidden. Most batles are caused by the younger, energetic, wizards who end up dying so the older ones are pragmatic and not hunted since they don’t make trouble. Although templars do hunt then they have many other duties and only act seriously when the Alliance becomes more active. I think that in times like these each cities Alliance may have been destroyed one or more times, so the present ones are much more quiet. 2- SK ‘re really complacent and busy with their own studies and spying their rivals. They also kill much of their time with carnal pleasures and managing their templars/ defilers so anyone becomes too powerful. 3- I chose to make the artifacts or really well guarded or in the hands of another power group. The dwarven relics’re safe in Hogaly ruins. The Lion King regalia’re in a special safe warded with potent magic and guardians in a hidden location of Guiustenal. Some others’re with different SK or some guy that they allow to keep just to see wath will be done with it and because he does not represent much of a treat( some bandits or warlords for exemple) 4-I kept the cities size and say these dosen’t increase because the farms can’t sustain more people. Some client villages were taken for their strategic value but the other tiny villages are just not worth the troops to defend. SK and defilers’re not the best guys to restoure an enviroment for farming, even the druids and more eco friendly preservers don’t create fields like that. Besides, they are already busy enough fixing the damege dealt by rogue defilers and thenselfs.

Forum: DS 3 – Topic: Defiler v Preserver

Well back in 2nd ed, the “Defilers and Preservers” supplement split the wizard spells into 3 paths: Path Sinister (defilers only), Path Dexter (preservers only), and Path Concordant (both). Path Sinister was a handful of death magic spells that it just wouldn’t make sense for a preserver to cast, and Path Dexter was some nature magic that it wouldn’t make sense for a defiler to use. Most spells fell into Path Concordant & could be cast by either. The supplement also stated that defilers specialzed more in invocation & necromancy and got a +15% to learn these spells, but were less skilled with abjuration & divination and had a -15% to learn them; this was reversed for preservers. I’m fairly sure that the 3 Paths of magic were retained for 3rd ed, but I’m not quite sure which spells fall into them.

Personally, I still feel that defilers and preservers need more drastic differences to distinguish them. I kicked around the idea of having both of them as specialist wizards – defilers as necromancers & preservers as illusionists – and combining them with the necromants and the shadow wizards respectively. Defilers wouldn’t be able to cast illusion spells, but would have a +1 level adjustment for necromancy spells, and preservers wouldn’t be able to cast necromancy spells, but would have a +1 level adjustment for illusion spells. As far as drawing on the Grey and Black, it would only be for necromancy or illusions spells. All other spells would be powered by life energy as usual, with defilers killing off plant life with all spells – even including necromancy spells, since opening a portal to the Grey to access its energy would require burning up life energy. Also, there’s the advantage that making preservers into shadow wizards means they’re a bit more spooky & mysterious, so it makes more sense that the common people fear them… In standard DS rules, preservers seemed to me too much like druids that cast wizard spells.

Forum: DS 3 – Topic: Defiler v Preserver

Defiling gives you a higher spellcaster level when you cast a spell. The various “raze” feats gives you much more possibilities.
Instead, preserving doesn’t give you anything but some more respect from the ones who know the differences between a preserver and a defilier :)

Forum: DS 3 – Topic: Defiler v Preserver

I’m starting a 3.5 DS campaign and I’m wondering in all the current rules for 3.5 beyond just player preference and the Raze feats for defilers what is the benefit and draw back from being a preserver over being a defiler? I remember in 2nd it being that Defiler leveled faster. I don’t want to jip my players by handling this incorrectly. I’m sure this is a simple answer that I am over complicating. Thanks for any help.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Dwarven campaign

I see, I wanted to know it to see if I could send the PCs there to “earn” one dwarven relic for some important mission. I knew about the guardians and I remenber reading something about Rkard hinself awakening as a banshee to protec the place. Since he was the strongest dwarf warrior EVER and almost killed Borys and Kled itself is quite strong all those artifacts can be kept safe.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Dwarven campaign

Wow, I never imagined Kled was that big!

I don’t think Kemalock is “sealed” since Rikus already went there, but I believe it is guarded by powerful dwarven banshees. You can read more about the treasures of Kemalock in the “Legends of Athas” supplement, which is a free download from athas.org.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Monsters and magic items

Another strategy the DM can use for magic items is to give them one that seems useful at first but later turns out to be cursed. In the “Black Spine” adventure, the PCs have to help a slave tribe known as Tenpug’s Band fend off a large gith army, and they find a magic gem in an ancient temple called “Rubyheart” (it’s in the “Legends of Athas” supplement). If I remember right, it allows its user to cast all kinds of fire spells like fireball & flame strike so it can be used to help defeat the gith, but if you keep it for long it possesses its wielder and turns them into its slave and forces them to start sacrificing people to it or something.

I’m pretty sure that a lot of the magic weapons left over from the Cleansing Wars would be like this, since they were evil & intended to commit genocide or slay preservers & druids in the Jihad. You could have the PCs find one of these weapons & use it for a bit, but eventually they’d realize it’s evil and they’d have to try to destroy it – just like the “One Ring” from the “Lord of the Rings” trilogy.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Dwarven campaign

Thanks for the help, although I don’t have any of the romances and will have a hard time finding any I will keep your tips in mind. If you’re interested I found this map of Kled http://www.darksun.com.br/mapas/kled1.0.jpg Could you plz tell me if the ruins of Kemalok are sealed or not ?

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

It’s good that I could be of help. If it’s not too a problem could you keep posting about this idea ? I really like campaigns about working for a community or rebuilding cities. I should post somethig about rebuilding Celik or Tar-elon soon too.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: Cities of the past

Thanks for the help guys. T’lor-Nefer-Shu was actually my inspiration for Tar-elon , it should be really challenging but rebuilding it may be possible. Celik’s already half restored but it homes mostly outcast and also need a lot of work. The “Valley of Dust and Fire” and “Wanderer’s Chronicles” references were really helpful , I would have needed a lot of time to find then.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: Cities of the past

Great post Raistlin. I was going to look this up myself and you saved me the trouble. Thanks.

Forum: DS 3 – Topic: Secrets of the Dead Lands?

As of 6 months ago it was 65% complete, as per this thread

http://arena.athas.org/forums/the-pit/topics/at…

Extrapolating that time table I would estimate it to be 66% complete now. Just kidding, I’ve just been jonesing for this Document for YEARS.

On another note, if the wonderful crew at ATHAS.org need another set of eyes to help with this project let me know. It’s time to turn my impatience into action….

Forum: DS 3 – Topic: Secrets of the Dead Lands?

Can we expect Secrets of the Dead Lands to be released or is it dead in the water?

Forum: The Pit – Topic: Cities of the past

For some info on Tar’Elon, see page 62 of the “Terrors of the Dead Lands” supplement. It was said to be a thriving port back in the Green Age, though not as great as Waverly or Bodach, but it was later destroyed in the Cleansing Wars and is only now being gradually resettled, under protection from the ancient meorty T’lor-Nefer-Shu. Also look at “The Valley of Dust and Fire”, page 26, where it talks about the Silt Raiders slave tribe, the current occupants of the island, led by the earth cleric Kelestes.

For Celik, look at the “Wanderer’s Chronicle” from the revised boxed set, page 116. Korsun, the patriarch of the merchant house of Mareneth, controls the city. They’ve refurbished & fortified about 60% of the city, and they regularly send adventurers into the ruins to battle the undead & try to retake more areas. Celik trades with Balic & South Ledopolus, but they try to keep a low profile.

For Waverly, look at the “Wanderer’s Journal” from the original boxed set, page 80. There’s an ancient ruined city there that was apparently a major port like Tarelon. The island is said to be deserted except for a flock of wild erdlus and several hives of wild kanks. There’s also supposed to be a horde of silver buried there somewhere that’s never been found. This is also the island that the sorcerer-queen of Raam, Abalach-Re (formerly Uyness of Waverly), hailed from back in the Green Age.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Monsters and magic items

I would early on give the party a magic steel weapon, and have it taken away in the first town they enter by a corrupt templar. That will set the tone. My view is that a party can have as many magic bone and stone weapons as they need. They just will break all the time.

The metal ones should be carefully guarded secrets of the party. Essentially if a guy walks into a bar with a metal sword every adventurer should eye him up and ask the question:
Is that man more awesome than me?
If the answer is no, then they should be scheming for it.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: Cities of the past

I’m thinking about playing a campaign in different parts of the Tablelands like Celik or Tar-elon but I don’t find enough info about these places. Could anyone help me with some info about differents places like these ? If possible I would be really grateful for some info about Waverly since I just can’t find any.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Monsters and magic items

Obviously, it’s up to you to do whatever you want in your campaign, but one of the things that really set Dark Sun apart from other D&D settings is a much lesser emphasis on magic items and more on the character’s skills & abilities. When I was DM in other settings like Dragonlance & Forgotten Realms, the PCs often accumulated a huge horde of magic weapons, armor, rings, cloaks, wands, potions, etc. by the time they were 8-9th level. This made the campaign seem less dramatic or suited to character development, and instead it turns into power-gaming with “munchkin” characters. In the end, play becomes boring because there’s no challenge the DM can invent that the PCs can’t easily conquer with their full adamantine plate armor, rings of unlimited wishes, bags of holding, and +50 keen flaming vorpal swords of destruction.

Personally, I’d recommend running Dark Sun as a “low magic” campaign, since this makes sense in terms of its historical background (i.e. magic has been outlawed for the past 2000 years or so, with the sorcereer kings monopolizing it as much as possible), and it also helps the DM create more challenging campaigns since the PCs will have to use their skills, feats & abilities to solve their problems rather than just whipping out another magic item. As a general rule of thumb, I’d say that low level PCS (level 1-5) should be given masterwork stone/bone weapons and the occasional metal dagger as a reward, then move up to non-magic metal weapons and the occasional 1 weapon for mid level (6-10), then +2 weapons for levels 11-15, +3 for levels 16-20, and +4/5 weapons and the occasional artifacts for levels 20+. Also, try to limit it to 1-3 magic items per PC even at higher levels. NPCs in most of the published adventures don’t have tons of magic items, so it will unbalance the game if your players do.

The most obvious way to keep magic items limited is to reduce the amount of them in the treasure PCs get for defeating various monsters, and the random treasure tables for Dark Sun give out much less than those used on standard D&D worlds. Many of the beasts of Athas have claws, teeth & hides that can be used to make weapons & armor, and sometimes their blood or organs can be used as spell components, so you don’t need to give any additional treasure – the monster’s dead body is reward enough. I’d also substitute valuable trade goods (giant hair rope, silkwyrm silk, agafari wood, obsidian orbs, etc.) for coinage to emphasize that it’s a metal-poor world. You can give them things like potion fruits, esperweed, poisoned arrows, etc. that are one-use items. Lastly, you can have magic items get stolen or broken. We see magic weapons breaking even in the DS novels, where Rikus breaks the “Scourge or Rkard” when he tries to cleave a giant’s boulder in mid flight and where Sorak gets his magic elven sword “Galdra” broken when an evil mercenary grasps its hilt. And of course the rarity of magic items will prompt templars, bandits, and mercenaries to hunt down anyone they know has a powerful magic item so they can steal it for themselves. When I DM’d, I let an 8th-level fighter find a +2 glass sword known as the “Siltblade” and fight with it for a couple weeks, only to have a siltrunner thief with an invisibility potion sneak into camp at night & steal it for his master, a Balicite templar.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Dwarven campaign

For more flavor on South Ledopolous, you may want to check out the novel “The Broken Blade”. In the early part of the book, Sorak (the hero) travels on a dwarven silt skimmer from North to South Ledopolous & helps defend them from a giant raid, and then explores the entertainments of South Ledopolous with the silt skimmer’s dwarven captain.

The “Prism Pentad” novels focuses mostly on Tyr, but you may also want to check them out for the info they have on the other major dwarven city of Athas, Kled, and the ruins of the dwarven stronghold of Kemalock nearby.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

Just a little crazy but I like it. The drik killing could become a tribal/cultural rite. Twice a year the young warriors could have to team up and kill a drik as a way to become “true warriors”. The food would supplement their own supplies, and the rite would help give them an identity.

As the city expands, and they begin to feed themselves in a more regular manner the practice could become a curiosity.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

OK, I just had a crazy idea that may solve all the food problems( plz comment and tell me id it’s too crazy). As I said before, the oasis’s near the driks breeding grounds. So, what if the taris hunt adult driks? They aren’t hunted by other humanoids and one of then should fell all the taris for months. In my mind the taris could use their poison to slowly kill one older drik in a week or two. It’s time consuming but even if 10 or more taris die I think it’s still worthy. They just have to ambush the thing hit a litle and run, repeting this until it dies.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

It was looted but many buildings remain burried so the taris will find shelter easily. The monsters should give some problem but the taris reproduce fast they shouldn’t have too much problem and I think they can use then as a food source. I don’t really know but is the water good for plants? Aren’t mushrooms the only thing possible to be farmed underground ? I don’t think they would be able to cultivate much there. For food sources hunting and trading should be ok, Taris are small creatures and can eat more things than humans. Your comparation to Israeli’s really interesing.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

My view is that the Tari have dreamed of having a homeland. Think Israel. If they discovered that the waters of Yaramuke weren’t poison to them they would start setting up shop, and exploring. The city was looted, but most likely the sewers remain. The Tari would then start farming underground, and trading things they find for food. As their population got bigger they would need more food, but at the same time this idea of a homeland would lead them to find more ways to make food.

They will have literally an entire city state of area in order to feed their people. They should easily get the population in the 1000’s.

The real problem would be the other things in Yaramuke. My guess is that for every three tari born at least one or two would die fighting the bad things. So you get a scenario much like Celik eventually where part of the city is safe, and part extremely unsafe. I still think the timeline holds:
10 years 100-500 Tari
20 years 3000-15,000 Tari
100 years viable city-state that can only be populated by Tari, since they are the only ones who can drink the water.

The biggest thing, is that I view their reaction to this homeland much like the Israeli’s. 1. They will never give it up. 2. They will do anything they can to make it livable. 3. Once established they will defend it at all costs. 4. It will attract their people, and have a huge immigration boost to their population.

It is really getting that first 500 Tari to make the entire city self-sustaining that is the difficulty. Once there it would take off like crazy.

For adventure hooks:
1. Much like Celik, adventurers would be needed to clear out the bad areas.
2. The occasional food shortages might lead to caravan raiding.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: The Rebuilding of Yaramuke

Nice idea but I would ad some poits. I think your Tari reproduction rate’s TOO big, they wouls just starve like that and there’s no need for then to have such a big population. Taris are really resistant to poisons and diseases so your idea of then resisting te water’s really good. However form what would they all life from? Here are some ideas of mine: Apart from all the scavenger, hunter and maybe some litle farming roles, they could work as guards and scouts at the trade route South( Yaramuke was once an important trade center) it would be possible for then to take the dricks egg market ! ToA says driks only live near that region and their breeding grounds are near the oasis. Since the taris can dig and should live underground anyway they should be pretty safe and a population of about 300/500 of then should be just fine to normal treats, a bigger army of a sorcerer king would simply not care to target such a small problem( Yaramuke was already looted anyway). Hope all this help you somehow.

Forum: The Sandbox – Topic: Dwarven campaign

Hello all! I m a brazilian player who discovered DK a few months ago in www.darksun.com.br and want to test my campaign ideas with oters.
My PCs start before the PrismPentad events and must begin as dwarfs. They leave NorthLedopolus together with the mentor of the group’s combatant to help him complete his focus, delivering an ancient magical darven metal weopon to a merchant in Balic. They are obviously attacked on their way to the city by raiders and monsters. This start is not supposed to be too dangerous but if they get unlucky or just be stupid one or more of then will die and surprise, they have a banshee to deal with now. Arriving there they still have to find the merchant(a house Wavir agent) and keep the weapon safe from thieves. Just after discovering some info that should take then to the merchant, the mentor is killed by an elfen assasin after the treasure and this part end with then beating the elf and his side-kicks. Finally the weapon is delivered and, after hearing their story, the merchant offer then work as guards in one caravan to Tyr.

During the trip they are attacked again but nothing too important happens except a thieve attack in Altaruck( learn on the hard way).Arriving there they et paid and have a week free until the next caravan leaves. Kalaks Ziggurat is been build but he his not too crazy yet, so the only possible problem with that will be a templar trying to take money from then so that they wont face some false accusation.
First chance to really choose between good and evil, a suspicios guy approaches then offering some good cash if they “take care” of some freeman who is said to be a wizard.
This all and some other stuff I m still thinking about are my PART I of the campaign.
Some adventures and levels later the PCs eventually return home, hoping to find repect for their achievements, only to discover that their kin see the as a bunch of reckless brats who leaf the village to play hero and were not there to help while it was attacked some days ago. Even worse, a brother or other close relative of the PCs was killed in the batle trying to fill the role the PC would have occuped. Ashamed and a bit depressed they decide to start helping the village and ther clans insted of adventuring for themselves.
Here the REAL campaign begins, since the Ledopolus villages are trying to build bridges acrros the Estuary of the Forked Tongue and there ’re the giants of Ledo on their way. I plan throw then to many logistic adventures as well as diplomacy and defence. The succes of the building will actually depend on then since I think PCs should make a diference even when in many adventures their only reward will be their lives!

I hope you guys actually find some of my ideas interesting and criticize then as much as possible so I can make better ones!

Forum: Product Feedback – Topic: Developers still around?

Contact flip[at]athas.org.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: ACTUAL PROOF THAT DS 4ed SUCKS

Guy (or gals) knock it off and get over it ; fourth edition is a fact, none of us have the ability to change what WotC is publishing.
Keep what you like from the new material, change what you don’t or ignore it, just stop trying to convert the other to your cause because its not going to happen over the internet.

Please play nice with others now, thank you.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: How to handle Water needs and intakes

Kreen need 1/7th the amount of water, Half-giants require twice the amount of water as the other characters. Though one would think Halflings need less water, like half the amount but I’m not finding anything in any of the books to support it.

Forum: The Pit – Topic: The Dead Lands Terrain Types

greyorm- I’m currently working on an extension of the ’Wander’s Journal’ chronicling a journey into and beyond the Deadlands. Its intended to be all in character and avoids spelling everything out in favor of dropping adventure seeds. Like you I’m of the mind that the Deadland should have at least as much variety in terrain as the Tablelands. Would you consider letting me use some of the concepts you drop here as part of my own project?

Forum: The Pit – Topic: ACTUAL PROOF THAT DS 4ed SUCKS

Look at who is trolling who.
And yes if we humans were to suddenly start acting like apes we would call this degeneration.
We wouldn’t bother to remind ourselves that we were apes once, as we think ourselves to be past that level.(Judging from your last post we are terribly wrong as there are some individuals that are still on that level.)

Forum: The Pit – Topic: How to handle Water needs and intakes

Thanks greygorn I hope my PC’s know as much you do. we are gunna have a ranger and a water cleric so it shouldnt be to bad :P