's original charter: 3.x development

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #62

Regardless of the opinion on Pathfinder, one thing I think both detractors and fans could agree on is that it proved that there was, is now, and will continue to be a desire for quality material using the 3.x/d20 system. And continues to prove to this day, in fact. Athas should have no qualms about releasing alternative 3.x/d20 rulesets, optional or otherwise. I would be willing to give more of my time and efforts than I already do (working on one project now) if I knew my resulting works would be officially published/made available to the general public through the Athas site.


nijineko, I agree but is no longer the forum to do that. Its clear that considers their agreement with WotC to be over, and will no longer be producing content.

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #64

Well, instead of leaving it vague, why doesn’t someone simply contact WotC and ask? Find out one way or another and settle the issue.

If no one else will, I’ll willing to do so. I’d want a go-ahead from Flip or something though to make me official first. ^^


Nijineko, they don’t ask because the status quo is better than rejection, the likelihood of which is 100%.

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #66

Ah, but wouldn’t “status quo” technically be to continue to follow the charter? ^^

Hmmm, now I’m tempted to go pester WotC about it, just to get a response and see what happens. Not saying that I’m going to do anything, but I’m tempted now.

When in doubt, DO.


The status quo is that they still have the created content up. Rejection and a rethink might be along the lines of “thanks guys, but please remove your content”.

(Chris Flipse) #68

To be fair about it:. @raddu works with wotc as a community manager. I was on the review crew for ds4. I don’t actually think it’s likely that they’ll ask us to take down content.

I’ve been doing some back end tinkering, and I’m trying to get something on site developed to the point that it’s easier to work with structured content …

But rules-wise, I’m pretty well exhausted with 3e, and I personally feel like 5e has done a fantastic job of recapuring the feel of AD&Dx while incorporating 20 years worth of lessons … I’d far rather move forward

That said, my primary gaming system for the last couple of years has been Fate.

Which is all mostly a long-winded way of saying that I’d really rather focus on setting material than slog through more rules adaptations, outside of it being my actual job.

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #69

You make excellent points. 5e IS a great development. I was in on the open beta, myself. And I would like to say for the record that I’m a huge fan of setting materials, plots, adventures, and other things I can easily adapt into my campaigns. I would encourage everyone who is interested in doing so to have at it. Note that I would hope for system agnostic material, specifically, so that it could be applied equally to any and all versions of Dark Sun in any system.

However, respectfully Flip, you also strengthen my point.

It is not your job specifically, but it IS the job of to produce 3.x content. Nothing more, nothing less. I do believe that the license for was contingent upon continuing to produce 3rd ed specific material, in fact, as it was for all of the officially designated sites. Failure of the site to do so, may be failure to perform the job specified and agreed to, and may also be potentially a violation of said license. I don’t want that.

Now, having said that, I don’t believe that “’s job of 3.x content” automatically translates to it being YOUR job, Flip, or raddu, nor anyone else’s specifically. After all, doing a job one doesn’t like and aren’t vested in means crap for quality. Flip prefers FATE system these days, and also prefers to work on Dark Sun setting materials, in Flip’s own words. I want you to work on what you want to do.

I also want to continue to produce content, rules, settings or otherwise for 3rd edition specifically, as is mandated. I would like to see that those who ARE interested in tinkering with the rules for 3rd edition in manner compatible with Dark Sun be allowed to do so, openly, officially, and formally - with the resulting material posted as “official content” on this site. Also in fairness, I note that producing system agnostic setting materials, which would by definition be compatible with 3rd edition among other systems, would sneakily and technically fulfill the license mandate all by itself. (which may be shooting myself in the foot, but oh well.)

In summary, those who want to work on setting material should be allowed and encouraged to do so in an official capacity. I suggest that setting material be system agnostic, so as to allow for adaption to any and all systems, D&D related or otherwise. Those who want to use this site’s official status as a vehicle for tinkering with 3rd ed rules in a manner compatible with Dark Sun, and/or otherwise continuing to produce 3rd edition specific Dark Sun material of all kinds, should also be allowed to do so in an equally official capacity.

So there are my hopes and desires. And here is a bit more of my thinking: If I were to work for WotC, I would have to work on what I was assigned to, not necessarily what I wanted to. If I produce my own stuff, using the OGL and d20 system, I would be third party material (not to mention being unable to use or reference non-OGL material).

However, here at, there is a unique opportunity to produce material, in my favorite (if clunky and seriously in need of some editing) system and, as a whacked out bonus, anything accepted would even count as official content. (Not to mention that I’m a huge psionics fan - I pretty much only play psionic stuff these days.) So, yeah, that all motivates me too.

If I could buy the license for all of 3rd ed (or the whole of d20 for that matter), I would, so long as I could work in “being counted as official material per WotC” into the agreement. And that is also part of why I harp on this whole “license and mandate for 3rd edition” stuff so much (I’m sure some are getting tired of me repeating it). I mean, if you had a chance to be an official contributor to the company who produced your favorite system, wouldn’t most people jump for that? (I guess that’s basically what I’m trying to accomplish, in part, here.)

Is there anyone among the templars, councilors, and/or other leadership of who would be willing to spearhead such an initiative, or perhaps simply serve as a point of contact and guidance for someone else who is interested in doing so in an official capacity?

(Oh, by the way and as an unrelated side note, I’m on my 3rd or 4th (?, anyway definitely the final) pass of the material for that project I’m working on, about 1/3 of the way through. Once I finish this pass, I’ll be delivering it.)


Um, well, I’m not anywhere close to being a member of the forum leadership, but I would help if I could, when I have time to do so. I still have to finish that adaptation of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

Also, I haven’t yet played 5th edition, but I’m already liking a lot of what I see. It looks like it’s going back to 1st edition with some elements of 2nd and 3.5th thrown in there. I just wish it produced more content. Given that 1st edition is what I grew up with, it definitely makes me more inclined to give it a chance.

that said, 5th edition does not seem to lend itself very well to the tone of Dark Sun, largely because of it’s lower magic assumptions. Which is why i think if we are going to produce more content for this site, it should be in 3.5.


My advice would be not to wait for anyone here to give you permission, just start producing fan content yourself. I’ve been around a long time and it’s not going to happen here and you won’t get the permission that you are asking for (I’ll drop dead if it happens).

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #72

Don’t drop dead, we might need your assistance, regardless of how it turns out. ^^

Even if they don’t want to support or assist me (even minimally) in such an effort, it would be nice to understand the circumstances, even if via a pm or email - should they want to keep in private.

I’ve played D&D and related since the early 80’s myself, so I have a bit of background with it. But it’s not like I’ve been in any of the professional circles, after all. I’m sure there is a matter of trust involved, as well as interest, or lack thereof. ^^

Can’t hurt to ask, in any case.

(Sébastien Gamache) #73

Even if I’d like to help anybody with the 3.5 edition, my time for creation have fallen to zero.

BUT, I’m still GM of DS 3.5 game. I just finished a 15 game sessions (of 4 hours each) which drained me a lot of juice I didn’t had. My next turn for GM will probably be in roughtly 18 months (it will be Fading Suns or Darksun).

I’m still hoping from age to see several of the projects come to life (like Secrets of the Dead adventure, etc.), because it would be product I could use instead of building adventure from “scratch”.

I’m grateful to all those at that made Darksun was it was 10 years ago, but now, you could serve as guides and mentors to new blood that would like to serve!

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #74

I quite agree. Adventures would be excellent! I’m a huge fan of adventures regardless of edition or even game system, because I find that the mechanics are easy (for me, anyway) to swap out. But it certainly is nice to have a pre-made framework of events or encounters to work with and improvise from.


Adventures are great, but setting material we could mine to inspire our own adventures would probably do the most good, in the long run.

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #76

If said setting material was in previously unexplored regions (ie: not something that has been covered in any detail, or at all in any previously published materials), and said materials were system agnostic, I could agree with that too.

(Sébastien Gamache) #77

So, what’s up at :wink:

(Robert Adducci) #78

When we’ve asked Wizards anything about the license we literally get no response. I know they’re getting them, but they’re not responding. That’s really good. It means they don’t really care what we do. If people want to continue with 3e stuff, go for it!

Personally I’ve been creating 5e content and been keeping it under my hat in hopes that Wizards released Dark Sun at some point to the DMsGuild. However, rather than wait for them, I’m going to start releasing it as homebrew playtest articles on the site. Then should it ever come to the DMsGuild I’ll release them there.

As for the site, if you have articles you’d like to post, feel free to email me at and we’ll get them posted. I recently scoured a bunch of old DS websites and am going to repost some of that content to keep it from disappearing or having to be found on


Sweet! With that motivation, maybe I’ll finally finish that adaptation/conversion guide for Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.

You would have to own the original 1st edition manual to use it at all, but I’ve already made plenty of life-shaping stuff for it on one of my posts, and I would love to see it on the products page.

(nijineko prismaticpsion) #80

Finally finished that Athas project I was working on!! Yay! Turned it into Flip, as he was the one who gave it to me in the first place. Hope I did an acceptable job of it. ^^

(Sébastien Gamache) #81

Oh? And what might it be?