Well that’s an interesting insight into how you view good and evil. I disagree with the accuracy of your take on good and evil, but interesting nonetheless.
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I was hoping to spark a discussion on the topic, one I find interesting to learn from others on.
So I’m a little disappointed at your lackluster if diplomatic response, lol.
A few millions of people agree with me, but in the worldwide population, that is a distinct minority.
In any case, my views would likely be an even harsher minority on Athas, likely get me killed in short order, ne?
So Neko, I take it you believe in objective morality?
Human beings have discussed and argued over the nature of good, evil, morality and so forth since as long as we’ve been able to formulate those concepts.
You presented your views as hard and fasts - no room for shades of grey. You are certainly free to do so, but making such a strong set of statements comes across, to me, as trying to pick an argument rather than genuinely influence others. You have your views on the nature of good and evil. I have mine. And billions of others have theirs.
Personally, I’m here because I want to discuss the fictional game universe we all like. I want to share and learn new ideas for my games so I can be a better DM, to give my players a more enjoyable time and maybe, just maybe, give someone else a spark of inspiration for their games.
If I want to discuss the nature of good and evil I’ll do that with friends, in person, probably after a couple of pints. But everyone’s mileage varies I guess.
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The Sorcerer Monarchs exist in what I call the Middle Eastern Leader Modality.
What is this? It’s simple. Any Middle Eastern leader that dares to be a liberal democrat gets assassinated or overthrown. The Middle East is a tough neighbourhood. Therefore all Middle Eastern leaders are strongmen because all the other leaders are dead.
The Sorcerer Monarchs are the same. It doesn’t matter whether you are good aligned or evil aligned. Oronis is a strongman that rules behind the scenes. Anyone causing trouble in Kern gets corrected, as surely as anyone causing trouble in another city state. If Oronis let his guard down for even a second, he’d meet the fate of Kalak. If not at the hands of his own citizens, then by spies from other cities.
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This is a good point. Regardless of alignment. Athasians are a harsh, brutal lot. By virtue of being more than mortal. Advanced beings naturally lack a certain amount of empathy towards the other intelligent races. Dragons by their very nature are predators. And everyone else is prey. Speaking only for myself here but I don’t have empathy towards the animals I eat. Gilts and Barrows might be cute to look at but I wouldn’t shed a single tear over my morning bacon. Even Avangions hold themselves above other beings. They might not have an inborn desire to harm them but they (probably) wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice what they consider to be pawns.
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They might not have an inborn desire to harm them but they (probably) wouldn’t hesitate to sacrifice what they consider to be pawns.
Yes, this is exactly how I see it. And this would easily allow an Avangion to be a BBEG in a campaign. Sacrifice enough pawns and you’ll be evil in the eyes of the pawns’ loved ones.
BINGO!
I am playing an NPC in my campaign and that is exactly how they are.
Do define what you mean by that term?
I think we might have a basic difference in our views of the English language?
Statements are not automatically “statements of fact”, as there is such a thing as “statements of opinion” and “statements placed to see how people react regardless of what one actually happens to believe” among other types of statements.
I cannot control how you perceive my comments, but I was certainly not trying to pick an argument, so I frankly apologize for coming across that way, even though it was truly completely unintentional on my part. =D
I would not dare cloud my mind when discussing something important like the nature of good and evil, assuming that your usage of the term ‘pints’ refers to alcohol, but like you said, everyone’s mileage varies.
I was mostly thinking my comments would make an interesting counterpoint, given the topic of discussion (ie: mindset of a sorcerer king) especially since people in such high positions of power actually tend to be VERY black and white (ie: my way or the highway) in their beliefs and behaviors.
Objective Morality as I understand the term means you believe in a clear line of what is moral vs what isn’t. Usually when.I see it used it comes from a religious view. IE God says stealing is immoral therefore it’s immoral. Subjective Morality on the other hand is defined by the individual. Stealing is generally immoral but I’m starving so it’s not immoral because I’m only stealing a loaf of bread to stay alive.
I like my morality Social. It is a ‘tool’ for living together.
A bit late to the party here but I love all the views brought forward regarding how the mindset of advanced beings could work this way or that way.
Say what you want, but some of those existing SM have been given such short shrift in a write-up that I will take you up on this challenge. It would most definitely work with Sielba and the pterrans imho. Even better: from what we do know about Sielba’s personality and specialities (a.o. from RaFoaDK) this would be right up her alley.
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That’s practically cheating. I feel like Sielba’s such an unknown/ blank slate that nearly anything could fly with her.
Or,alternatively: “Huh, oh yeah, good call.” 
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Strawmanning asides, every regime, no matter how heinous, prohibits murder, theft, assault, and all the usual crimes.
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I’m not sure I fully agree here. Look at Tyr. As far the law was concerned there really was only one law. Obey Kalak. Whatever the king wants he is to get. I suppose murder was relatively frowned upon because it could lead to social upheaval which would annoy Kalak. But I don’t think there was an actual law on the books against it. I mean Templars basically just made up whatever rules they wanted on a case by case basis.
All leaders and governments prefer to be the only ones killing their citizens and breaking their own laws.
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So proclaimed the Leviathan!
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That does not quite seem to match what was being described, so I would say that definition doesn’t agree with the concept presented in my post.
So, do all sorcerer kings suffer from megalomania and a personal version of manifest destiny?