Sorcerers don’t leech themselves. They either preserve or defile.
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Ah, I see where you’re going with this now.
If you ran a sorcerer as still defiling or preserving, but not relying on a spellbook, then it is conceivable they could work within Dark Sun.
It’s a fun idea to pick a power source for them.
Does that mean Warlocks could exist, but their power source is the Black or the Grey?
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4E had warlocks as templars. Having both 3.5e style templars and warlocks as templars both could be interesting. Perhaps the many varied organizations and factionalization in Eldaarich is because of this divide.
As for warlocks as they appear in Complete Arcane, I think that they would require an extensive re-fluff.
For what its worth, here is my proposed Sorcerer Monarch based templar base class.
Warlock Templar (Wtp)
Hit Die
D8.
Requirements
To qualify to become a warlock templar, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Alignment
Within one step of patron sorcerer king on moral (good/evil) axis.
Class Skills
Appraise, Bluff, Craft, Concentration, Diplomacy, Forgery, Gather Information, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (any), Listen, Literacy, Profession (any), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Search, Spot, Use Magic Device.
Skill Points at Each Level
4 + Int modifier.
Class Features
Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Warlock templar are proficient in all simple weapons. Since templar training involves some education in warfare, warlock templars receive two martial weapons proficiencies. Warlock templars are proficient in light armor but not with shields
Sigil (Sp): Every warlock templar receives a sigil that is the sign of their rank and station as a templar within their city’s templarate. The form of the sigil is unique to each city state but is always unmistakable for what it is. The sigil serves as your divine focus and allows you to use the spell-like powers arcane mark, purify food and drink, and slave scent a combined total of times equal to 3 + your Cha modifier.
Invocations : A warlock templar does not cast spells as regular templars do. Instead, he possesses a repertoire of attacks, defenses, and abilities known as invocations that require him to focus the energy that emanates from his Sorcerer Monarch. A warlock templar may use invocations at will with the following qualifications:
A warlock templar’s invocations are spell-like abilities; using an invocation is therefore a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity. An invocation can be disrupted, just as a spell can be ruined during casting. A warlock templar is entitled to a Concentration check to successfully use an invocation if he is hit by an attack while invoking, just as a spellcaster would be. A warlock templar can choose to use an invocation defensively, by making a successful Concentration check, to avoid provoking attacks of opportunity. A warlock templar’s invocations are subject to spell resistance unless an invocation’s description specifically states otherwise. A warlock templar’s caster level with his invocations is equal to his warlock templar level.
The save DC for an invocation (if it allows a save) is 10 + equivalent spell level + the warlock templar’s Charisma modifier. Since spell-like abilities are not actually spells, a warlock templar cannot benefit from the Spell Focus feat. He can, however, benefit from the Ability Focus feat, as well as from feats that emulate metamagic effects for spell-like abilities, such as Quicken Spell-Like Ability and Empower Spell-Like Ability.
A warlock templar can select any invocation available to warlocks. Unlike a standard warlock, a warlock templar’s invocations are divine magic based but are still subject to spell failure chance, just like their arcane warlock counterparts.
Secular Aptitude (Ex): At 1st level, you gain Secular Authority as a bonus feat. In addition, you receive a competence bonus to Secular Authority checks equal to half your warlock templar level.
Mitigate Corruption (Ex): You can mitigate the legal consequences of being caught being bribed or otherwise being financially corrupt by clever dissimulation. At 1st level you may take bribes or corruptly appropriate up to 1 Cp per day without legal consequences (you must still accept the bribes or illegally appropriate funds – the money does not come automatically). For every warlock templar level you have beyond first level, this legal immunity to financial corruption increases by 1 Cp per day. This does not protect the warlock templar from the consequences of other kinds of official corruption, like treason.
Imbue Templar Item (Su): A warlock templar of 3rd level can use his supernatural power to craft magical items if he has the corresponding item crafting feat. He can substitute a Use Magic Device check (DC 15 + spell level) in place of a required templar spell he doesn’t know or can’t cast. Spells to be emulated must be drawn from the templar spell list staring on page 138 of the Dark Sun Core Rules and includes the spells of any spheres granted by his Sorcerer Monarch. You may not emulate spells that exceed half your caster level (for example, a warlock with a caster level of 5 may not emulate a 3rd level spell. He must have 6 caster levels to do that).
If the check succeeds, the warlock templar can create magical item as if he had cast the required spell. If it fails, he cannot complete the item. He does not expend the XP or Cp costs for making the item; his progress is simply arrested. He cannot retry this Use Magic Device check for that spell until he gains a new level (in any class).
The warlock templar is considered to know the spells on the templar spell list and the spells on the spheres granted by his Sorcerer Monarch for the purpose of activating spell trigger items.
Magical items created by a warlock templar are considered divine.
Templarate Training: At 4th-level, a warlock templar receives a bonus feat reflecting his privileged position and the training that comes along with it. These bonus feats must be drawn from the following: Alertness, Brew Potion, Deceitful, Deft Hands, Diligent, Improved Turning, Investigator, Leadership, Linguist, Kleptocrat, Magical Aptitude, Persuasive, Favorite, Improved Sigil, Dissimulated, Faithful Follower, Field Officer, Scribe Scroll, or Skill Focus. A warlock templar must still meet all prerequisites for a bonus feat. The warlock templar gains another bonus feat at 8th level, 12th level, 16th level, and 20th level.
Refocus Invocation: At 3rd level, you may select a least invocation that you know and another least invocation that you do not know. You can switch between the two least invocations after 8 hours rest. At 7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th level you can select another pair of invocations at the grades specified in the table and you can switch between them.
Imbue Cleric Item (Su): At 10th level your ability to imbue items grows. You can now imbue items using spells from the cleric spell list in the same way you imbue templar items.
High Templar (Ex): At 14th level you are either a high templar, or merely respected or feared by other templars. Against templars and creatures with the secular authority feat, you gain a +2 to skill checks of Diplomacy, Intimidate, Bluff and Sense Motive. These bonuses do not apply to other templars with this ability.
Unbreakable Bond (Ex): At 20th level (or 20th warlock templar caster level, whichever comes first), the bond with the vortice from which the warlock templar draws divine magic becomes unbreakable. The vortice is always open to the warlock templar, and even the warlock templar’s Sorcerer Monarch patron cannot stop the warlock templar from receiving invocations. Even the death of the Sorcerer Monarch does not stop the warlock templar from receiving invocations. The warlock templar becomes aware of this strengthened bond, but the Sorcerer Monarch has no special way of knowing unless the Sorcerer Monarch cuts off the warlock templar from invocations and notices that the warlock templar can still invoke invocations.
Table: The Warlock Templar
New Invocations
Whispers of the Sorcerer King
Least; 2nd
You hear whispers in your ears, revealing secrets of Athas. Select three knowledge skills. You gain a +6 bonus on those three Knowledge skill checks for 24 hours. Once the 24 hours has elapsed, a different three knowledge skills may be selected.
Sorcerer King’s Protective Screen
Least; 2nd
You bring forth the protection of your sorcerer monarch, protecting yourself from arrows as if under a protection from arrows spell. Sorcerer King’s Protective Screen lasts for 24 hours or until discharged.
Sorcerer King’s Elite Guard
Least; 2nd
You call on your sorcerer monarch to imbue you with size and strength, intimidating the enemies of your leader. You get the benefits of an enlarge person spell and bless spell (bless giving you a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and on saving throws against fear effects). Sorcerer King’s Elite Guard lasts for 1 minute per caster level or until discharged.
Cool Oasis
Least; 2nd
You bring forth your sorcerer monarch’s succor. You get the benefits of the cooling canopy spell (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 148) and the sustenance psionic power. Cool Oasis lasts for 24 hours or until discharged.
Utterance of War
Dark; 7th
You bring valor and fury to your allies. You invoke the effects of a crusade spell (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 149). Invoking this invocation while it is still active discharges the previous invocation.
Find the Enemy
Least; 2nd
You seek out the enemy of your leader. You can invoke the effects of the footsteps of the quarry spell (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 156). In addition, you gain a +2 bonus to Intimidate and Sense Motive checks against the named enemy.
Avatar of the Sorcerer King
Dark; 6th
You become an avatar of your sorcerer monarch. You can invoke the effects of the transformation spell. Additionally, you get damage reduction 10/magic. If you have spellcasting ability, that ability is lost as detailed in the transformation spell description, nor may you use spell trigger or spell completion magic items, but your invocations are unhindered. Once you have used this invocation, you must wait 5 rounds before you are able to use it again.
Aura Audit
Least; 1st
You know things about the citizens and slaves of your city. You can invoke the effects of the aura reading psionic power (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 178).
Sorcerer King’s Strength
Lesser; 3rd
When you use this invocation, your strength increases exponentially. You can carry heavy loads effortlessly, and your strength increases for other purposes also. You get the benefits of the psionic lighten load power (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 184), enabling you to increase your carrying capacity as if your Strength score was increased by 10 points, and an effect similar to the bull’s strength spell, except that instead of an enhancement bonus, you are granted a +4 morale bonus to Strength. Sorcerer King’s Strength lasts for 2 hours per caster level or until discharged.
Shunt to Void
Lesser; 3rd
You can shunt a creature within 30 feet of you into the void between Athas and the Gray. The target creature may resist the forced relocation by making a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your caster level + your Charisma modifier). If the creature successfully resists this relocation, you may not target him again with this power for 24 hours. Once a creature is relocated, it remains trapped in the void for 1 round, effectively losing its action on that round of combat. You can use this ability at will. Effects such as Dimensional Anchor prevent this invocation from taking effect.
Thousand Eyes of the Sorcerer King
Lesser; 3rd
Your sorcerer monarch grants you the power to truly see. You get the benefits of the ubiquitous vision psionic power, allowing you to see in a 360-degree sphere. Thousand Eyes of the Sorcerer King lasts for 24 hours or until discharged.
Sorcerer King’s Arsenal
Least; 1st
You call echoes of weaponry used by the soldiery of your sorcerer monarch into your hands. You can invoke the effects of the call weaponry psionic power. For every 4 caster levels you have, this invocation is augmented by 4 additional power points.
Mind Shield of the Sorcerer King
Least; 2nd
As a valuable agent of your sorcerer monarch, you gain protection against psionic and magical mind affecting intrusions. As an immediate action, you can invoke the effects of the thought shield psionic power. This invocation protects against both magical and psionic mind-affecting effects. For every 4 caster levels you have, this invocation is augmented by 1 additional power point, gaining the benefits detailed in the description of the power.
Sorcerer Monarch’s Injunction
Greater; 5th
Your sorcerer monarch grants you the power shatter mind blank effects and break enchantments. When you use this invocation, you may choose to invoke the effects of the shatter mind blank psionic power or the break enchantment spell. Your manifester/caster level equals your caster level for this invocation.
Punish the Cowards
Lesser; 3rd
You do not allow your servants to betray you or your monarch out of cowardice or weakness. You can invoke the effects of the infallible servant spell (Exemplars of Evil, page 27). This invocation differs from the spell description as any capture causes the spell to take effect, regardless of the captor’s alignment. You may have a number of servants affected by this invocation up to your (unmodified) Charisma ability modifier.
Sorcerer Monarch’s Sight
Greater; 5th
Your ability to perceive is almost as good as that of your sorcerer monarch. You get the benefits of the dragonsight spell (spell compendium page 73), enhancing your visual acuity. Sorcerer King’s Sight lasts for 24 hours or until discharged.
Cosmic Cognition
Dark; 9th
Nothing can be hidden from you. You can invoke the effects of the cosmic awareness power (Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 180).
Slave Breaker
Least; 1st
You can bring slaves (or any enemy) down without damaging its market value. This invocation is the equivalent of the whelm spell (Player’s Handbook II, page 128), except as follows. You invoke an occult assault on the target’s mind, dealing 1d6 points of nonlethal damage if it fails its saving throw. For every two caster levels beyond 1st, you deal an extra 1d6 points of nonlethal damage to the subject, to a maximum of 5d6 at 9th level. For every 4 caster levels you have, you may target one additional creature.
Sorcerer King’s Aegis
Lesser; 4th
A shield comes into being to block enemy magics. As the mystic aegis spell (Player’s Handbook II, page 120). To use this invocation, you must be aware of the spell being cast, and succeed on a Spellcraft check of DC 15 + spell level. Upon success you can invoke sorcerer king’s aegis immediately (as an immediate action) when you are targeted by the hostile spell. You gain spell resistance equal to 12 + your caster level against that spell. Once you have used this invocation, you must wait 5 rounds before you are able to use it again.
I’ll chime in, despite my anti magic preferences.
I could see a sorcerer IF and only if the SKs had children from their modified forms. If they are even still genetically capable of bearing offspring…
I personally think a limited warlock class is a better template for Templars than what is currently existing. More in line with the idea of dark corruption by the SK.
Perhaps with a bolted on modified ability of the spell thief to learn and store a few specific arcane spells taught to them by the SK, in addition to the invocations… or make that an invocation itself.
Limit the actual wizard class to the Champions and the like or something.
Use the NPC Adept class modified for preserving / defiling instead for PCs to bring down the playable level of magic.
There are. In Athas still live genies (eg. Dao in book “City-State of Tyr”) and other elemental powers. So conceptual “they have magic in own blood” can be realized. But they wouldn’t be as users of arcane magic, but as users of elemental, divine magic.
But cuz elemetal powers are very weak, so also “elemental-touched” should be very small part of population.
Eg. less than 1% can have possibility; 75% can not survive own childerity cuz anti-magic phoby and policy and random events (eg. death by hunger, thirst or sunstroke); rest have 10% chances that they will controlled own powers, that they will be usable. If they will be finded by druids or elemental clerics chances to survive or correct education will be greater. But still they will be extremal small part of society. IMO - more close to NPC than playable persons.
This does sort of tie into something I am dealing with right now. Looking at a lot of different classes in PAthfinder/3.5 A lot of classes use what are effectively magic. Where does one draw the line? At what point does it mess with the themes of the game? If too many classes have their own meta rules/magic when does a player say it doesn’t make sense to play a wizard?
Food for thought is all.
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3.5e DS changes spellcasting Assassins to using psionics, a lot of PF classes could do something similar i imagine, buyt you totally have a point.
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I think almost anything goes as long as you maintain the defiling vs preserving dichotomy. It matter doesn’t if there is an arcane class that does magic slightly different from wizard, casts from a fixed list, etc.
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Well, and as long as you preserve the tropes.
The difference between a PF Magus, a 3.5e Duskblade and a 2e Fighter/Wizard are negligible IMO, as long as they’re treated the same by the setting world around them - preserving/defiling, hunted by templars, hated by civilians, etc.
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The difference to the uh… Let’s call them muggles… is so opaque as to be non existent. That magus? Hit me in the face with a mace and scorched my hair with fire. Damned defiler bastard.
Too many people are hung up on what DS was in 2E. Guess what? None of the other settings had the 3.5e classes either. Yet it is only in DS circles that we see “well, you can’t have X class because it’s not in the setting”. X class was also not in Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Ravenloft, and so on, but were there starting in the 3E era.
Sorcerer, warmage, dread necromancer, beguiler, et al are merely different ways to defile or preserve. Slightly different traditions from within the same area of study (arcane magic).
If you think about it, warmages and dread necromancers make sense, especially if you consider that most of them are likely working for the Sorcerer Monarchs. Don’t like sorcerer bloodlines? No problem. Sorcerers on Athas use will to power instead of scholarly intellect to tap into magic. It’s not hard to fit these concepts into DS at all.
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Speaking of warmages, they sound a lot like Dark Sun arcanamachs. Or they could be dread necros, beguilers, or arcanamach could be a catch-all term for all three. Fixed list casters are less of a threat to a Sorcerer Monarch than a wizard, who ultimately has flexibility and utility.
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I’d dig a new class as a mashup of Sorcerer and Wizard, where the traditional Sorcerer class abilities are affected by defiling, allowing to make your spells more powerful.
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Cool I guess, but controversial. I dug up a digital copy of Dragon Magazine for more context on arcanamachs. It looks like it really is easy to peg them as fixed list arcane casters.
But DS also havent “normal class” like a paladin. Num of ban character kits also is great.
So this method is not completely unfounded. Later editions DnD create more “high magical classes” and tries of transformation this to “low fantasy setting” are very hardly. For 2ed we had even series “Historical Reference”. I can’t imagine, how with eg. 5ed, there transform this to the probable scenario in crusade period, with there are some magical elements but still soft.
Main points are in problem - do we more look on mechanism of class X or on original lore about class of X?
Warlock as original lore? Everybody who isn’t mage is “warlock” - clerics have pacts with elementals, druid with land spirits and templars with SK’s. But we can imagine classes with warlock mechanism but with different lore.
Sorcerer as original lore? How I good remember, only part of elemental priests “can be honored” because they have influence of elements in his blood. But as mechanism? Some person can have the intuitive ability of magecraft.
Second problem with “more magical classes” can be connected with worldbuilding. How many arcane spellcasters can live in City-States, Tyr region or Tablelands? High density of population in cities are connected with fact, that it is helpful for Templar and other “mage hunters” to track defilers and similar “users of arcane magic”. Great part of population have deep “wizardophobia”, so I can imagine that mobs in some village or nomad tribe can kill (and next eat) child, who many peoples see influence of magic in his body.
Sometimes it can be logical that in many regions only the PC will be “user of magic in non-classical dualism”. So why create new being, if only will be possible do seeing only in own team?
IMO - each step in the innovation of magic poses a great risk to the logic of world DS.
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Yes - but paladin is banned in Dark Sun contemporaneously when paladins existed in other settings. That’s how you know that paladins should not be allowed in a 3.5E Dark Sun game. As for these other classes, there is no guidance whatsoever.
In 4E, warlocks were templars. It was an interesting choice, and helped make templars different to clerics. Note that in 2E, templars were better than clerics in other settings. They were like super clerics.
The lore regarding sorcerers is flexible. All the bloodline stuff was suggested to be possibly rumour, possibly true. But sorcerers could just as easily be using will to power to access spontaneous arcane magic. That is certainly the case of the 3.5E warmage, who is trained to cast arcane magic spontaneously.
Is that arcanist that is being burnt at the stake right now a wizard, beguiler, sorcerer, warmage, or dread necromancer? No one knows. While there is mainstream hatred of arcane magic, there is surely a segment of the population that is sympathetic, otherwise there could be no Veiled Alliance or any mages not affiliated with the Sorcerer Monarchs at all.
Why should an arcanist like a dread necromancer threaten the verisimilitude of the setting? Its just a specialist of sorts in necromancy. Its not like it overturns the dichotomy of preserving and defiling, unlike some other things introduced at the very end of the 2E Dark Sun line
The people of Athas don’t care about your arcane specialization. They want you dead because you are destroying the lands that keep them fed. I can’t think of a single thing about the setting as presented in 2E that could be undermined by having variant arcanists present in the gameworld.
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But how many peoples know, that there exist “form of magic, where after using lands aren’t destroyed”? On Athas ignorance is great.
Yes. Here you have right, that normal peoples dont care “do you are user of arcane magic because you learned this from illegal books or you have natural skill”.
But for me the most important risk is fact, that “free external sources of arcane magic” can should lead to rapid renovation of regions (or even world). Free energy for magic can mean free water, free fertilization, free weather control etc.
Ofc - if magic of sorcerers will be mean “this spellcaster still have to steal living energy of plants, but by (eg.) evolution know this without studies” - I will not have problem with this.