Regardless of the opinion on Pathfinder, one thing I think both detractors and fans could agree on is that it proved that there was, is now, and will continue to be a desire for quality material using the 3.x/d20 system. And continues to prove to this day, in fact. Athas should have no qualms about releasing alternative 3.x/d20 rulesets, optional or otherwise. I would be willing to give more of my time and efforts than I already do (working on one project now) if I knew my resulting works would be officially published/made available to the general public through the Athas site.
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nijineko, I agree but athas.org is no longer the forum to do that. Its clear that athas.org considers their agreement with WotC to be over, and will no longer be producing content.
Well, instead of leaving it vague, why doesnāt someone simply contact WotC and ask? Find out one way or another and settle the issue.
If no one else will, Iāll willing to do so. Iād want a go-ahead from Flip or something though to make me official first. ^^
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Nijineko, they donāt ask because the status quo is better than rejection, the likelihood of which is 100%.
Ah, but wouldnāt āstatus quoā technically be to continue to follow the charter? ^^
Hmmm, now Iām tempted to go pester WotC about it, just to get a response and see what happens. Not saying that Iām going to do anything, but Iām tempted now.
When in doubt, DO.
The status quo is that they still have the Athas.org created content up. Rejection and a rethink might be along the lines of āthanks guys, but please remove your contentā.
To be fair about it:. @raddu works with wotc as a community manager. I was on the review crew for ds4. I donāt actually think itās likely that theyāll ask us to take down content.
Iāve been doing some back end tinkering, and Iām trying to get something on site developed to the point that itās easier to work with structured content ā¦
But rules-wise, Iām pretty well exhausted with 3e, and I personally feel like 5e has done a fantastic job of recapuring the feel of AD&Dx while incorporating 20 years worth of lessons ā¦ Iād far rather move forward
That said, my primary gaming system for the last couple of years has been Fate.
Which is all mostly a long-winded way of saying that Iād really rather focus on setting material than slog through more rules adaptations, outside of it being my actual job.
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You make excellent points. 5e IS a great development. I was in on the open beta, myself. And I would like to say for the record that Iām a huge fan of setting materials, plots, adventures, and other things I can easily adapt into my campaigns. I would encourage everyone who is interested in doing so to have at it. Note that I would hope for system agnostic material, specifically, so that it could be applied equally to any and all versions of Dark Sun in any system.
However, respectfully Flip, you also strengthen my point.
It is not your job specifically, but it IS the job of Athas.org to produce 3.x content. Nothing more, nothing less. I do believe that the license for Athas.org was contingent upon continuing to produce 3rd ed specific material, in fact, as it was for all of the officially designated sites. Failure of the site to do so, may be failure to perform the job specified and agreed to, and may also be potentially a violation of said license. I donāt want that.
Now, having said that, I donāt believe that āAthas.orgās job of 3.x contentā automatically translates to it being YOUR job, Flip, or raddu, nor anyone elseās specifically. After all, doing a job one doesnāt like and arenāt vested in means crap for quality. Flip prefers FATE system these days, and also prefers to work on Dark Sun setting materials, in Flipās own words. I want you to work on what you want to do.
I also want Athas.org to continue to produce content, rules, settings or otherwise for 3rd edition specifically, as is mandated. I would like to see that those who ARE interested in tinkering with the rules for 3rd edition in manner compatible with Dark Sun be allowed to do so, openly, officially, and formally - with the resulting material posted as āofficial contentā on this site. Also in fairness, I note that producing system agnostic setting materials, which would by definition be compatible with 3rd edition among other systems, would sneakily and technically fulfill the license mandate all by itself. (which may be shooting myself in the foot, but oh well.)
In summary, those who want to work on setting material should be allowed and encouraged to do so in an official capacity. I suggest that setting material be system agnostic, so as to allow for adaption to any and all systems, D&D related or otherwise. Those who want to use this siteās official status as a vehicle for tinkering with 3rd ed rules in a manner compatible with Dark Sun, and/or otherwise continuing to produce 3rd edition specific Dark Sun material of all kinds, should also be allowed to do so in an equally official capacity.
So there are my hopes and desires. And here is a bit more of my thinking: If I were to work for WotC, I would have to work on what I was assigned to, not necessarily what I wanted to. If I produce my own stuff, using the OGL and d20 system, I would be third party material (not to mention being unable to use or reference non-OGL material).
However, here at Athas.org, there is a unique opportunity to produce material, in my favorite (if clunky and seriously in need of some editing) system and, as a whacked out bonus, anything accepted would even count as official content. (Not to mention that Iām a huge psionics fan - I pretty much only play psionic stuff these days.) So, yeah, that all motivates me too.
If I could buy the license for all of 3rd ed (or the whole of d20 for that matter), I would, so long as I could work in ābeing counted as official material per WotCā into the agreement. And that is also part of why I harp on this whole ālicense and mandate for 3rd editionā stuff so much (Iām sure some are getting tired of me repeating it). I mean, if you had a chance to be an official contributor to the company who produced your favorite system, wouldnāt most people jump for that? (I guess thatās basically what Iām trying to accomplish, in part, here.)
Is there anyone among the templars, councilors, and/or other leadership of Athas.org who would be willing to spearhead such an initiative, or perhaps simply serve as a point of contact and guidance for someone else who is interested in doing so in an official capacity?
(Oh, by the way and as an unrelated side note, Iām on my 3rd or 4th (?, anyway definitely the final) pass of the material for that project Iām working on, about 1/3 of the way through. Once I finish this pass, Iāll be delivering it.)
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Um, well, Iām not anywhere close to being a member of the forum leadership, but I would help if I could, when I have time to do so. I still have to finish that adaptation of Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
Also, I havenāt yet played 5th edition, but Iām already liking a lot of what I see. It looks like itās going back to 1st edition with some elements of 2nd and 3.5th thrown in there. I just wish it produced more content. Given that 1st edition is what I grew up with, it definitely makes me more inclined to give it a chance.
that said, 5th edition does not seem to lend itself very well to the tone of Dark Sun, largely because of itās lower magic assumptions. Which is why i think if we are going to produce more content for this site, it should be in 3.5.
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My advice would be not to wait for anyone here to give you permission, just start producing fan content yourself. Iāve been around a long time and itās not going to happen here and you wonāt get the permission that you are asking for (Iāll drop dead if it happens).
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Donāt drop dead, we might need your assistance, regardless of how it turns out. ^^
Even if they donāt want to support or assist me (even minimally) in such an effort, it would be nice to understand the circumstances, even if via a pm or email - should they want to keep in private.
Iāve played D&D and related since the early 80ās myself, so I have a bit of background with it. But itās not like Iāve been in any of the professional circles, after all. Iām sure there is a matter of trust involved, as well as interest, or lack thereof. ^^
Canāt hurt to ask, in any case.
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Even if Iād like to help anybody with the 3.5 edition, my time for creation have fallen to zero.
BUT, Iām still GM of DS 3.5 game. I just finished a 15 game sessions (of 4 hours each) which drained me a lot of juice I didnāt had. My next turn for GM will probably be in roughtly 18 months (it will be Fading Suns or Darksun).
Iām still hoping from age to see several of the athas.org projects come to life (like Secrets of the Dead adventure, etc.), because it would be product I could use instead of building adventure from āscratchā.
Iām grateful to all those at athas.org that made Darksun was it was 10 years ago, but now, you could serve as guides and mentors to new blood that would like to serve!
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I quite agree. Adventures would be excellent! Iām a huge fan of adventures regardless of edition or even game system, because I find that the mechanics are easy (for me, anyway) to swap out. But it certainly is nice to have a pre-made framework of events or encounters to work with and improvise from.
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Adventures are great, but setting material we could mine to inspire our own adventures would probably do the most good, in the long run.
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If said setting material was in previously unexplored regions (ie: not something that has been covered in any detail, or at all in any previously published materials), and said materials were system agnostic, I could agree with that too.
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When weāve asked Wizards anything about the license we literally get no response. I know theyāre getting them, but theyāre not responding. Thatās really good. It means they donāt really care what we do. If people want to continue with 3e stuff, go for it!
Personally Iāve been creating 5e content and been keeping it under my hat in hopes that Wizards released Dark Sun at some point to the DMsGuild. However, rather than wait for them, Iām going to start releasing it as homebrew playtest articles on the site. Then should it ever come to the DMsGuild Iāll release them there.
As for the site, if you have articles youād like to post, feel free to email me at Raddu@athas.org and weāll get them posted. I recently scoured a bunch of old DS websites and am going to repost some of that content to keep it from disappearing or having to be found on archive.org
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Sweet! With that motivation, maybe Iāll finally finish that adaptation/conversion guide for Expedition to the Barrier Peaks.
You would have to own the original 1st edition manual to use it at all, but Iāve already made plenty of life-shaping stuff for it on one of my posts, and I would love to see it on the products page.
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Finally finished that Athas project I was working on!! Yay! Turned it into Flip, as he was the one who gave it to me in the first place. Hope I did an acceptable job of it. ^^
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Oh? And what might it be?