Frightened or disinterested?

This is to discuss the book City under the Sands. There is a scene where a powerful Demon lays Siege to the Naggaramakamm. (hope I spelled that correctly) and Nibenays shadow wives fight it off using his powers. The book flirts with the idea that this demon is so powerful that the Shadow King is reluctant to come out and face it. Now I have a hard time accepting that. Gallard successfully wiped out his race. He controls one of the strongest city states in the world. He devised the prison that held Rajaat for 2K+ years and he’s one of the most knowledgeable sorcerer monarchs in the world. I choose to believe that like a lot of things that don’t require his direct attention he analyzed the situation and determined his wives could handle it so he just funneled an extra amount of elemental power their way. No need to dirty his own claws.

Also as a side note. There’s a scene where his various favoured wives start argueing with each other and put him in the middle and he acts like a henpecked husband. That would never happen in my campaign. The last thing any of his wives wants is to attract his attention. Him being such a thoroughly evil and sadistic being.

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I didn’t read the book but heard that late books were not much coherent with previous lore.

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You and everyone else who knows anything about the setting.

I’m a little puzzled as to why you would describe him as sadistic. It’s your Dark Sun game but literally no source has ever described him as such. In fact, he seems to be perhaps the least evil champion with the exception of Oronis (even Lalali-puy, for all her popularity, is known for her violent temper and cruelty).

This is putting it mildly. The Dark Sun Novels that came out during 4e had about the same amount of connection to continuity as RaFoaDK, but without Lynn Abbey’s skill at writing, plotting, and characterization. One of the 4e Dark Sun books introduced Tharizdun to Dark Sun. Yes, from Greyhawk. Yes, it makes exactly as much sense as it sounds. No, I have no idea who approved it.

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You make a good point regarding the Shadow King. The only things in cannon I can point to are when he wanted his slaves to throw themselves into a fire to burn themselves to death after disposing of the grove Sadira defiled in the Amber Enchantress. The fact he doesn’t bother to hide his true form to have his wedding nights with his new templars 3rd or 4th stage would be pretty horrible for the girls in question. And the idea that Rajaat specifically looked for the most powerful, cruel and evil men and women to be his champions.

You’re right though. They never use the word sadistic in describing him. I just sort of assume after 1500 years of war and another 2k ruling regular villainy would be pretty boring to him now.

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I have the book on Kindle and keep intending to read it. I haven’t yet.

Do you remember what type of demon it was? Nibenay would mop the floor of any ordinary typed demon, like a balor. The balor would be in for a world of pain.

It would take a demonlord to pose a threat to any of the Sorcerer Monarchs. Even then, Nibenay stands a very good chance of winning.

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As I recall they didn’t name what type of demon it was. Just that it possesses a treasure trove of steel and the more steel it had the more powerful it became. Also both Dhojakt and Seimouk make appearances in the book.

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Regarding the personality of Nibenay, we know precious little about this enigmatic figure. Yet he is given special attention by our authors. From Troy Denning, he receives a powerful cameo in Amber Enchantress, and Simon Hawke makes him the master antagonist in The Wanderer. Happily, Hawke seems to seemlessly follow Denning’s vision of the Shadow King. He is enigmatic, calculating, remote, and very pragmatic. He offers very few secrets about himself or anything else, despite the surely dizzying amount of lore he has gathered to himself across the millennia.

I would not say that Nibenay is “disinterested.” Rather, he is very interested, but only insomuch as the matter has to do with him or his city. I speculate he has developed over the many centuries a considerable dedication to his city. It is first and foremost his base of power, which he has very much required so as to maintain his status among his peers and to fuel the Prison. But I also suspect he has a more personal dedication to the city itself and his people. For the city he seems to have considerable pride. It is his, is stamped throughout with his face and presence, and is among the greatest remaining cities on Athas. As for his people, I actually suspect a considerable percentage of his subjects are actually to one degree or another his own descendants. Whether due to pleasure, policy or both, he has likely mated with many thousands of virgins throughout his reign, many of which were already of his blood, and thus the city of Nibenay may very well be Nibenay in a way that is fairly unique among the cities of the Tablelands. As a measured pragmatist, Nibenay has little compunction of punishing or even destroying particular members of his own progeny, but he seems to have favorites that he protects (Prince Dhojakt), and surely his people as a whole are a great and precious asset to him that he would not see destroyed, at least not utterly. I suspect he would differ from Kalak, and would never sacrifice his entire city.

As to sadism, indeed, I think to some measure this plays on his personality, at least more so than with all the other sorcerer-kings. He deliberately generates his mental construct when speaking with Tithian in the deformed shape of Djojakt, as if to disturb and unsettle Tithian simply for the sake of doing so. His wedding night treatment of his templar-wives is also surely unsettling. But all this and whatever other horrors he enacts may not be a matter of pleasure, but one rather of policy. In all cases it could be argued he does these grotesque things to better subordinate and terrify the recipients into subjugated obedience. The templar-wives are likely under no illusion that their husband-king “loves” them and would not destroy even the most beautiful or powerful among them on a whim. Therefore they will always fear him. Any pleasure he derives from such things I suspect is secondary.


As to the new novels, I am thus far unimpressed, though in fairness I have not afforded them much of a chance. I suspect they are largely a “hot mess”, though with their moments to shine. As I have argued elsewhere, I deem that “demons” are inappropriate for Dark Sun, and therefore deny the premise. Nibenay might be much removed and even aloof from the events of his city, but he is surely not ignorant of events that are worthy of his consideration. Beyond the Prism Pentad rightly made clairsentience his foremost psionic discipline, and from time to time I imagine his cosmic awareness folds outward across the city in all-encompassing embrace. Though he would rely on his templars, military and other agents to deal with most issues, should any serious threat come his way, I have ever confidence Nibenay would deal with the matter personally, though his methods may not always be as direct and overt as we would expect of more forceful tyrants.

The gnomes are a furtive and hidden race, that likely did not often face Nibenay’s forces openly in the battlefield. Nibenay would have had to learn how to be clever and scheming to annihilate such a race completely, which he obviously did. I would expect such methods to largely remain the same, though now with arguably the greatest army in the Tablelands, second perhaps only to Urik’s legions, he also is more than prepared to meet threats outright and openly with direct and overwhelming force.

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Let’s not forget that prior to the prism pentad, the sorcerer kings would engage in mock war/ raids on each others cities and lands. I always suspected it was a convenient way to reduce city populations to tolerable levels. Also a way to acquire resources without going through the trading houses. I call them mock wars because the monarchs never become personally involved with them. With the exception of Hamanu but he’s involved for reasons of his own.

As for him disninterested. From what i understand he designed all of the rituals and systems of his city personally. They are essentially systems of operation that make the city run itself without his direct intervention.

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Indeed Kalak of Tyr. Generally speaking, there seem to be limitations on warfare in the Tablelands when it comes to the sorcerer-kings. Hopefully you find some of my more in-depth thoughts on the matter of warfare on the Tablelands helpful.

https://arena.athas.org/t/constant-battles-among-the-city-states/1955/20?u=phaaf_glien

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Hawke’s rendition of Nibenay is problematic.

He’s choleric.
Threatens instead of acting.
At the mercy of foreign agents.

He reminds me of an impotent Tithian yelling at Rikus and Sadira through a magic stone, expecting cowering but inspiring derision and disgust instead.

Denning’s rendition of Nibenay is respected and feared by anyone that crosses his path. He’s wise and cautious. He doesn’t trust foreign agents and as such relies on templars and his son.

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Indeed Pennarin. I did dislike the canard that Nibenay was reserving his magic to focus on the metamorphosis. This was an author’s trick to explain away why Nibenay did not engage personally, even though the matter was very important.

The Wanderer is one of my most favorite non-Denning DS books. Valsavis is a great villain. But this explanation for Nibenay’s avoidance of direct personal action was definitely a weakness.

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Hawke book titles: Outcast, Seeker, Nomad, and their follow-up The Broken Blade

Wanderer = Nomad …?

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