Nijineko's Unseen Ways 3.5 conversion project

High psionics is not just “high magic” with psionics instead of magic. See here.

Excellent points. Being OGL does make certain things simpler.

I should clarify that I used my personal and long standing rule/ preference to determine my starting point for this project, which as I mentioned has resulted in hundreds of pages of material already. It does not have to remain my starting point, should sufficient persuasive logic be presented.

For example, should it wind up being too much work, I will split my project into two, and save the MLP portion for the second project.

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Sure. I chose the broker power for a reason. Have a look at the OGL powers from Hyperconscious here. Do a search for check. You’ll notice that these provide a bonus to skill checks. Some similar powers are in Complete Psionic or XPH, but it would have taken perhaps 2 or 3 pages of paper to have them there. These are the kind of powers that a psionic character should have, but do not.

Its logical for them to have a powers that improve skill checks. If there wasn’t one already, you’d have to create one (and I am pretty sure that 2E had some similar concepts). Rather than you creating one from scratch, wouldn’t it make more sense to use a power created by the creator of 3.5e psionics? If he’s not legit, then any power you convert from 2E is less so, “official” or not. Even if you claim officialness, people online will be saying its 3PP and thus applying the same strict exclusion that you are doing to Cordell’s 3PP works. Except it will be stricter, because you are not Cordell, and anything by Cordell is generally accepted in psionics accepting campaigns, in my experience.

In my opinion (and I am not telling you what to do), the standard for inclusion should be the adequateness of the OGL content. There is a lot of psionic 3PP content that I would not include, with poorly written and conceived powers being common place. I have not done a very thorough analysis, but from my reading, almost anything from Cordell is well-balanced for a psionics inclusive campaign.

Ultimately though, it doesn’t matter. You don’t have to include the Hyperconscious powers because the Hyperconscious is already out there. However, including them, even in just a list of “acceptable powers” similar to the Dark Sun list of “acceptable monsters” would greatly increase the utility of psionics within a Dark Sun campaign.

The above comments do not apply to the DSP base classes. These are better handled with Unearthed Arcana style optional rules.

" The High Psionics Campaign

In a high psionics campaign, psionics does not merely exist, as it might in a standard game that includes psionics, it flourishes. Psionics is common, and powerful manifesters are real threats to the world at large.

A world of high psionics is more likely to have NPCs with manifesting ability, or psionic items available for purchase in the bazaar, or psionic monsters accosting travelers.

A high psionics game is more likely to use soulknives instead of paladins, wilders instead of sorcerers, and psions instead of wizards. Even if you do not want to make your game exclusively psionic in nature, increasing the number of NPCs with levels in psionic classes, or enemies with psionic ability, can create a high psionics world."

Yes, it is.

Question: what does the term “3pp” mean as you are using it?

Because I think “3 power points” when I see that, as per standard psionic terminology.

Third Party Products (3PP). Its standard terminology on the forums.

Thank you.

I should think the acronym should be TPP in that case, since 3pp has already been designated.

Unnecessary, since the context makes it clear that it could absolutely not be three power points.

Speaking of third party, that reminds me… due to the unique co-ownership status of and WoTC, everything Dark Sun 3.5 we produce IS first party product.

Products produced under licence are second party.

First party are products produced by WotC.
Second Party are products produced under commercial license by second parties. These include the 3E/3.5e Dragonlance setting by Sovereign Press and the 3E/3.5e Ravenloft setting by Arthaus.

The non-commercial licenses for fan sites are considered second party but understandably lower-tier. Importantly, the products produced by Arthaus for Ravenloft and Sovereign Press for Dragonlance are considered canon for 3E/3.5e, but products produced by fan sites with the non-commercial licenses are not considered canon. It’s the highest tier of netbook canon, however.

Third party are products produced under the OGL, without any licensing from WotC. For example, Hyperconscious by Bruce Cordell.

The rubber stamp of WotC is not important. What is important is the quality of the work.

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If WoTC owns it, I’m pretty sure it’s first party, regardless of who produced it. One of the rare exceptions to the rule due to the unique co-ownership clause, which normal licenses do not have.

You can cleave to that as a personal definition, but you will not be able to communicate meaning properly.

That’s not my personal definition.

But in any case, let’s start a different thread if you want to keep debating that point. It is not moving the project forward.

Your suggestions about content have been noted for further deliberation.

Is there anything else that the community wants to see happen with or be included in the Unseen Ways book?


Do you really intend to do this? All of the low hanging fruit powers have been converted, and the powers that were not converted were not converted for a reason. Are there any powers in particular that you’d like to convert from the Complete Psionics Handbook and The Will and the Way?

How would a power change to be Athas oriented? Even if there were some powers that may need some mechanical alteration, all of them?

Anyway, what I would like to see is original, new official powers (not derivative or based on previously published powers). The last official psionic power was written up in 2008. That’s a 14 year gap since we’ve had any official content for psionic powers. Its about time that this be rectified. Maybe 20 new official powers or so?

Unless someone provides me with an itemized list of why each power from the 2e Unseen Ways that was skipped was not converted, and also assuming that said reasoning is still sound today… or if no one remembers the reason, then there is no reason not to update the entirety.

Those powers were all deemed setting appropriate back then, so I feel it is logical to review the reasons that choose to skip them before deciding to skip them again.

You want to include the powers from the 2e Complete book in this project? What is your logic for doing so?

You also want to include material from another book, The Will and the Way, in this project? What is your logic for this request?

Mostly the fluff, possibly some of the mechanics would be the primary targets for an Athas adapted version of a power.

Converting and including the MPL was my initial thought, but perhaps that is too ambitious and too much material for this project.

I should probably start with the initial book first and then see what the cleaned up page count is before committing to that much. More scope can alway be added later, but it is better to start with less scope at first. I shall hold off on the MPL for now.

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That is a very tempting request, actually…

That is kinda part of why I wanted to Athas-ize the MLP, it would make all of those 900+ powers that most people don’t know exist available to the general community in a form that doesn’t trespass copyright.

Just new powers, eh? Not a revamp of the psionics system?

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I’ve seen the list you produced. Of these, almost all are readily available and known to anyone in the community. The power have fallen down the memoryhole, so they merit inclusion, but have to be vetted and/or revised if necessary.

Having new powers would be adding real value.

No. Need to maintain compatibility with existing statblocks, campaigns, and so on.

I guess your circles use psionics more than the groups in my region, most people here barely know anything about psionics other than the two main books.

New powers, I will take that under advisement.

I have partial revamps of the existing system that are backwards compatible, but suite yourself.

There is this one Planeswalker power that is in need of serious editing that immediately springs to mind, lol. A simple omission caused it to become an uber power.

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New powers. Athas themed psionic items with costs fully detailed. And perhaps details of a psionic academy in each city state?