The Cleansing Wars are a perfect example of differing pieces of lore clashing badly with each other and with the mechanics the setting was built on. It should be remembered that in 2nd edition, most of the sorcerer kings and queens are not actually that powerful, statistically speaking. Psionics in 2e were barely functional, and magic was generally less powerful and more risky than it is is 3rd edition (unless you had access to the plethora of Forgotten Realms spells that let you cast multiple spells with a glance and similar absurdities), and the sorcerer monarchs were originally stated at 21st level for the most part, and only gained 1 level each post Prism Pentad.
None of this is a problem until you realize that they had to scour an entire planet full of nations who had spent centuries developing both magic and psionic ability, which doesnât feel possible, even more-so if you accept that they werenât dragons until after the wars. Unlike say, many characters in the Forgotten Realms, the statistical reality of the sorcerer monarchs has never really made them feel capable of accomplishing the feats they presumably achieved.
Even more surprising, how Troy Denning portrayed the sorcerer monarchs during the Prism Pentad actually adds to this. Aside from Hamanu, they donât feel capable or competent enough to put down a slave rebellion, much less deal with hostile nations.
I agree about their competence. I think the most practical solution is to put them all at much higher stats than 2e used. Use the excuse that theyâre 3.5e and now make sense (mostly). Fortunately, this is supported even required by the charter (3.5e, not power creep, though itâs at least allowable I think).
For Egendo, according to FFN he wasnât actually killed but buried alive and sealed without resources and no absolutely chance of escape. He recently escaped.
This could still be worked into your plot if you wanted to include this. After all someone needs to do the sealing and it explicitly needs epic psionics and or magic. No reason this couldnât be from the PCs with help from the Grey Dwarves (those powerful psionicists).
We can look on âAmerican Frontier Warsâ. By over 300 years, area after area, was conquered. Tribes were beaten, banished, starved, re-settled to worse lands etc. Similar style can made in Athas. âCleasing Warsâ maybe wasnât great, genocidal wars, but long-time push to reduce living space and intentional persecution. This will be great explain, why âCleasing Warsâ was extremal long and in result laters SK look as ânot powerful enough to/after great warsâ.
BUT this explanation spoils connection âCleasing Wars led to great natural disasterâ. Populations, and alone champions, seeing the undue harm to nature, they would stop using magic at some point. In this situation Athas shouldnât be a dry-world. Great natural disaster, where element of water was close to die, needed relative rapid actions.Otherwise, at some point, everybody would speaK âstop, water is close to endâ.
Spot on! One of the main issues with the setting is reconciling the âloreâ from Revised and the novels with the game mechanics and just thinking about the âmathâ required to do what the SKâs did on a planetary level. World destroying characters would inevitably be met by other world destroying characters of equal or greater level. Rajaat was made into a pseudo-Sauron, basically unkillable.
PP series gave Athas life in it descriptions of the world but it also destroyed it in it terrible majesty with clown-like representation of the SKâs and the history of Athas.
Itâs like asking why on Athas would the SKâs in the Tablelands when just over the mountain there is a large scrub plain virtually empty. (please donât justify the why, these guys are the SKâs - THEY HAVE THE RESOURCES and POWER to relocate entire cities if they wanted.) Instead the cities wallow in the wastelands.
The historical weight of the setting as written is what kills this.
Answer can be simple - Rajaat, Borys and levies. This is Damocles Sword. This is MAD doctrine. Everybody must give big num of slaves as levies in right time, or Rajaat can return (do levies was real, necesary sacrifice or this was only in Borys propaganda - IDK). Great migration or great colonisation is risk and neither other SK will want securing levies of others rulers âbecause he want go with own subjects in other placeâ.
Fall of Yaramuke it raised cost of the levies for every City-State and this can lock obtaining a surplus of population for effective and not endangered, significant colonization.
Current, after Revolution and Decade of Heroism others SKâs havenât this problem, but have other problems. Risk revolution in own domain, risk of disasters (natural and super-natural), risk of crisises etc.
Now is the time of anxiety. Until consolidation and stabilization of power in this region, there is no possibility of colonization, resetlering or migration.
In my world, folks are starting to learn what the Dragon kept at bay. Since his death there have been two invasions, Champions from beyond the tablelands (locked out after the rebellion) have started reappearing, the Kreen are starting to filter into the region in larger numbers, the entire region has become unstable.
So far nobody and nothing has stepped up to take the Dragonâs place but with the Pristine Tower seeming to be a magnet for the powerful itâs only a matter of time before something will have to be done to ensure stability. The SMs are looking to force Hamanu into dragonhood, or potentially make a deal with Dregoth, or even figure out a way to work together for the common good. If the SMs donât so something soon the potential of one or more groups such as the druids coming together is a possibility.
If the SMs donât take back control and soon, they may be removed entirely. Theyâve seen powerful leaders removed before when they stand alone, even if it takes an army to do it, and without the Dragon as the ultimate power check the SMs are starting to take more interest in the happenings outside their own citystates.
Again you rely on the story in the books. The 1,000 lives per city levy is ridiculous it is impossible to sustain (there are posts in here that go into greater detail). Each city population is different - Gulg would not be able to sustain that for more that 5 years before its gone. So is the fact that Eldarich and Kurn dont contribute and Borys was okay with that. Using your analogy Sielba died 1400 years before the present (using the revised cb timeline) so that city being gone doesnt make sense as a significant impact to the levy.
SKâs could round up roving bands of Thri-kreen in the hinterlands or better yet given the Superintelligence of the SK and Borys and the fact that theyâre as evil as evil gets. They could have set up a small section or client village in each city or Ur-Draxa with its 120K population to have 1500 female slaves just give birth endlessly to the required number of sentient people for sacrifice. All managed by midwife templars.
If the ultimate goal is to keep Rajaat imprisoned then ANY means necessary would be used, Borys would not chance it. Honestly this whole backstory is pretty meh. If the Dragon created an entire city to protect the prison, he would also create a reliable means to maintain it that didnt rely on any other SK.
He could have the population of Ur Draxa as a backup in case he runs low on life force to drain. Heâs powerful enough to have forced the SKs into donating sacrifices. The 1,000 sacrifices also almost certainly included substantial leeway which could be used to boost other spells or and the slave population as Borys decided.
Gulg remains an issue. We can assume the population of Gulg is only citizens and doesnât include children or the slave population and is only the main city and mot the client villages and their slaves. Even if this tripled or quadrupled the population, itâs still had too low to maintain the levy but at least itâs less of a strain (and we can infer diligent slave trading and hunting to supplement numbers).
You know - here I try to be close to âathasian orthodoxyâ. Data or proportions or some reasons can be other, but core points of world and politics should still have place. Levies also is one of core points of athasian policy (Andoris paid instead of Kalak by fear). So I think, that we shouldnât eliminate levies, but try rationalize this.
Value is inconsistent. âDS: Creature Catalogâ (4ed) have information, that levy was on level âhundredsâ. This can be more rational value, in compare to thousands. âBeyond the Prism Pentadâ have information, that SKâs give a levy of one thousand slaves every year. So total number can be one thousand, and this also would be less destructive value for Gulg and others. âThe Ivory Triangleâ have information, that Gulg send one thousand of prisoners of war, bandits and few random crazy citizens.
I will reduce concept of levies to one, the most important point. SKâs had to send great number of humanoids to Dragon. How many? For me this can be negotiable. After rationalization of numbers still this will be important impediment to colonization and expansion.
In âThe Ivory Triangleâ we have information, that main part of gulgian levies are prisoners of war and criminals (+/- few crazy citizens). So I think, that Lalali-Puy didnât use own, normal subjects but lead wars or proxy wars with other tribes, illegal settlements, non-civilizated humanoids etc.
You bring up the 4E version of DS and I can say I actually like what they tried to do to the setting in blurring the inconsistencies of the revised products in 2nd. My original point is 1,000 per city is unsustainable by most cities and absolutely unsustainable by Gulg. But if we go by that the Dragon collects a levy from the SKâs that is inconsistent I can go with that and agree that its the best (IMHO) way forward. 4E put less focus on what Rajaat was/did in the grand scheme of things which is not a bad thing and removed mention of the Rhul-Than halfling origins which I think was also the way to go.
I would prefer that the cannon of the setting especially as it relates to the revised products stay amorphous and ambiguous. How many total SKâs are there? no one really knows. Why is the majority of humanity in the Tablelands? No one really knows. And so on.
I know many GM and players like to have definitive answers to certain questions in the setting, I used to be like that too. But as I have gotten older Iâve come to appreciate all the gray space left to individuals reimagining. Give us some setting anchor points and let the rest be.
I agree that keeping things open and vague allows DMâs to add, which is great.
But Iâm not ready to throw away Rhul-than yet. I think itâs still workable even with the full unabridged history as per the revised. Indeed, that long history is unique among D&D settings, and itâs one of the main selling points of Dark Sun.
Agreed. I like the rhulisti creation origin. Gods, dead gods, and god wars have been done to death in other settings. Having a unique creation mythos is one of the things that makes DS standout.
Glad you guys like the Rhul-than. The reason I brought them up was that many other folks did not. Which is the point of leaving many things in the past vague is that it allows for your version of Athas to exist in complete harmony with the setting as presented.
And the levy is a total number of sources of genetic material and lifeforce, rather than a static number that has to be handed over on a deadline?
In other words, what if there were hives beneath the prison filled with lifeshaped Matrix style body pods, in a massive magic sealing formation? They could be using extracted genetic material to create breeders, and the lifeforce for the prison?
The levy is officially advertised to be so large to scare the general populace into line or for other reasons, and the actual number turned over is simply enough to top off and replace those that have died over the year. Might even be used to selectively control the progression and expansion and resource depletion of each city and keep them roughly balanced.
Could also be used to sell favors and allow certain cities to âsecretlyâ send less and have the target owe the source a favor. This could in turn explain some of the seemingly erratic and counterproductive actions and behavior by some - they had to pay their dues.
Wouldnât be the first time the official government public stance differs from actual policyâŚ
This is what would likely happen if the SMâs knew about the rhul-thaun of the Jagged Cliffs. Theyâd twist it for their own sinister purposes and likely exploit it as a power source much like Trees of Life.
Perhaps they found another repository of lifeshaping knowledge, which would give them partial and limited access, without needing to get the shrimps involved directlyâŚ
After all, the SKs seem to subscribe to something like Grimtoothâs philosophy regarding halflings⌠âif you hit one in a cross walk, back up and finish them off - its easier to beat a murder rap then to pay support to them and all their kin!â
In the Saragar entry in revised 2e boxed set and in the related aventure the Last sea is described the goverment before the sorcerer monarchs some kind of advisors, judges or magistrates of their people alone or in groups like the 3 of Saragar