Substitutes for metal

Very interested!
Love how you’ve developed the idea of the bone industry in Athas. Would different City States specialize in different stages of sourcing and production? For instance, Gulg might specialize in hunting wild beasts for their parts, Draj might specialize in breeding certain types of animals, Nibenay might specialize in working bone into artifacts, etc.

As a side note, that’s bothered me for some time with regards to other material sources: where do the Nibenese get tools strong enough to cut through and work agafari wood if it’s almost strong as steel? What kind of tools are the Tyrians using in their iron mine?

Psionics anyone?

Unfortunately, some real world parallels here with factory farming or the way congenital defects begin to appear in dog or horse breeds when breeders try to keep the bloodlines ‘pure’.

I think it’s a good option for a critical fail (natural 1 on the die). It encourages players to keep a back up weapon. Also for my Dark Sun, characters would not become overly fond of their weapons - they would have a more pragmatic attitude and just see them as tools.
And agree with you that it would give opporrunity for more creative tactics than just “I hit it with my [bone] axe.”

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A thread on another forum talked about how Mongol warriors used layers of silk as part of their armor to help block arrows – the weave was so tight it was supposed to prevent arrows from piercing. (early Kevlar?)

It got me thinking about silk as an exotic material. Since I can’t imagine mulberry trees and silkworms surviving on Athas, it seemed like spiders (giant or otherwise) might be a good substitute on Athas. Can you imagine breeders raising giant spiders and milking them for their silk? If a PC ever killed a monstrous spider in the wilderness, one treasure they’d look for would be a sack of spider eggs to sell to spider breeders. And what would you be able to make with the silk from a Crystal Spider?

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Okay, I’ll try to dig up the notes and post them here tomorrow :slight_smile:

I mean, gangsters during the Prohibition Era did the same thing… :wink:

Also, I remember this was a thing in the first SSI Dark Sun game. There was a vest made of giant spider silk as a quest reward, I think it was an equivalent of magic leather armour. So, it’s hard to imagine the adaptive people of Athas wouldn’t do it!

Absolutely, sigh.

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I would think that parallel invention might yield the glassteel effect via psionics. Originally a spell in FR, I think with all the sand, and especially rusted wastelands, that this would be a natural development by psionic artificers in Dark Sun. Probably have a different name… though.

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With the relative rarity of iron on Athas, what do Athasians call “iron rations”. :wink:

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Halfings and thri-kreen called it elves.

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Now we know how elves learned to run so fast :joy:

@Rhal-othan Sorry for the delay. I found the file with my house rules - posting them under the spoiler tag:

House rules for Athas materials (3e)

Introduction

In many centuries of the Brown Age, the life on Athas adopted to the new conditions. Devoid of metals, the craftsmen mastered other resources, honing them to perfection; the warriors and workers found ways to use them to maximum effect. No Athasian would call such weapons and tools inferior in good conscience; rather, it’s the metal items that are considered superior.

The following rules are meant to rebalance the most common materials on Athas, making them all viable in some way or form. I also intended to give the metal weapons a clear edge over other materials.

Basic rules: Post-battle weapon damage

While superior to their equivalents on other worlds, the Athas bone and obsidian is less durable than metals. An Athasian warrior risks damaging their weapon in every fight, which leaves them with a dulled, chipped blade – or, if they’re careless, unarmed.

To represent this lack of durability, once a combat encounter is over, each character needs to make a Post-battle weapon damage test for the weapon they used most often. To take the test, roll a 1d8. If the character rolls an 8 (7 or 8 for obsidian weapons), their weapon becomes damaged.

Material Post-Battle Damage test failed on:

Bone: 8

Obsidian: 7-8

Bronze: 8

A damaged weapon loses all of its material-provided bonuses. In addition, its current Hit Points are halved (rounded down) and it’s considered to be made from an inferior material , imposing a -1 penalty to all Attack and Damage rolls.

Optional: At DM’s discretion, a character armed with a damaged bone or obsidian weapon may have to continue the Post-Battle Damage tests. If the test is failed, the weapon breaks and becomes unusable. This never applies to bronze weapons - they can become damaged, but not broken.

Special: A character with a Weapon Focus feat automatically passes all Post-Battle Damage tests with their weapon of choice. A character with an Optimised Combat feat automatically passes all Post-Battle Damage tests. Wrought iron and true steel weapons never have to test for Post-Battle Damage.

Athasian materials

Bone

In a world where both metal and wood is rare, bone is the staple of craftsmanship. The diverse Athasian fauna provides bone materials with various useful properties, many of which come from species bred specifically for their skeletons. The bone-shapers of Athas use animal acids to make the material more malleable and ductible for production, then harden it with resins once an item is ready. Bone products combine decent hardness with elasticity, making them surprisingly resistant to damage.

Special rules

  • Bone can be used to create any weapons and equipment.
  • It is considered the ‘standard’ material, providing no bonuses or penalties.
  • All hafted weapons with stone heads are considered bone weapons.

Obsidian

This volcanic glass breaks at extremely sharp angles, creating blades that put even steel weapons to shame. It is a brittle material, however, prone to shattering on impact. An obsidian weapon provides a literal edge in combat, but it often won’t survive the confrontation. Armies that favour obsidian weapons carry big supplies of spare blades, but individual fighters often favour bone weapons because of this drawback.

Special rules

  • Because of its brittleness, obsidian can’t be used to create one-handed and two-handed bladed weapons.
  • Slashing and piercing obsidian weapons receive a +2 modifier to Slashing / Piercing damage. Obsidian arrows and bolts still benefit from this bonus, but they can never be recovered.
  • A one-handed macahuitl counts as a one-handed hafted weapon. A two-handed macahuitl counts as a two-handed hafted weapon.

Wrought iron

The vast majority of metal weapons on Athas are made of wrought iron: An weak alloy made from the inferior Tyr ore. These weapons are pathetic imitations of the true steel of the Green Age: The wrought iron is brittle, easy to damage and can’t hold a sharp edge very well. Still, in the metal-deplored world, it makes for a superior material.

Special rules

  • Wrought iron can be used to make any weapon.
  • All wrought iron weapons provide a +1 bonus to hit rolls.
  • Wrought iron weapons never have to take Post-Battle Damage tests.
  • A character armed with a wrought iron weapon is always considered to have the Improved Sunder feat against enemies equipped with bone, obsidian or wood weapons. This rule includes hafted weapons with wrought iron heads.

Bronze

The pinnacle of Athas metallurgy, this copper alloy is superior to wrought iron in almost every way. Harder, less brittle and easier to work with, it also holds a vastly superior edge. Its only drawback is its relatively high malleability and ductility. While a bronze weapon is unlikely to break, it’s prone to bending or chipping in the heat of battle.

Fortunately, bronze items are very easy to replicate. Their production involves melting the metal, then casting it into a new shape. It makes repairing a bent bronze weapon a trivial matter: a blacksmith can smelt a damaged blade then cast it again in the same shape. Such feats are impossible with wrought iron or steel, which rely far more on the exact composition of the alloy.

There are no copper or tin mines on Athas, which makes bronze a rare material indeed. Fortunately, bronze is very resistant to corrosion. Aside from a slight, dark surface layer, bronze items don’t undergo much decay. This makes ancient bronze items extremely valuable, as any old relic can be smelted down and cast into a more useful shape. Only a handful of dwarven blacksmiths knows the secret of producing bronze from copper and toxic minerals – a secret most jealously guarded.

Special rules

  • Bronze can be used to produce any weapon.
  • The superior quality of the alloy provides a +1 bonus to all attack and damage rolls (+1 damage for arrows and bolts).
  • A character armed with a bronze weapon is always considered to have the Improved Sunder feat against enemies armed with bone, obsidian or wood weapons. This rule includes hafted weapons with bronze heads.

Just like wrought iron weapons, serviceable bronze weapons are worth their full price in gold. A pound of bronze is worth 200 ceramic pieces; a pound of copper can be worth as much as 300 ceramic pieces to a buyer who knows a skilled bronze metallurgist.

True steel

These ancient weapons have been made of true steel back in the Green Age. Very few specimens survive to the modern times; while true steel is a superb material, it is not resistant to corrosion. Most of the artefacts of the past days have long since decayed into useless scrap. A lucky prospector who finds one intact soon becomes very rich… Or armed with the best weapon available on Athas.

Special rules

  • True steel was used to produce all weapons.
  • Its superior quality provides a +1 bonus to all attack and damage rolls (+1 damage for arrows and bolts).
  • True steel weapons never have to test for Post-Battle Damage.
  • A character armed with a true steel weapon is always considered to have the Improved Sunder feat against opponents armed with bone, obsidian, wood, wrought iron or bronze weapons. This rule includes hafted weapons with true steel heads.
  • All bone, obsidian, wood, wrought iron and bronze weapons reduce their Hardness by 4 when stuck by a True Steel weapon.

No Athasian blacksmith is capable of creating true steel. A true steel weapon is worth four times its normal price in gold.

Weapon hardness

Short blades:

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 1
Obsidian Hardness: 6 HP: 1
Wrought iron Hardness: 10 HP: 2
Bronze Hardness: 12 HP: 2
True steel Hardness: 15 HP: 3

One-handed blades

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 3
Wrought iron Hardness: 10 HP: 5
Bronze Hardness: 12 HP: 5
True steel Hardness:15 HP: 6

Two-handed blades

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 5
Wrought iron Hardness: 10 HP: 10
Bronze Hardness: 12 HP: 10
True steel Hardness: 15 HP: 12

One-handed haftedweapons

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 8
Obsidian Hardness: 6 HP: 5
Wrought iron* Hardness: 10 HP: 20
Bronze* Hardness: 12 HP: 20
True steel* Hardness: 15 HP: 25

Two-handed hafted weapons

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 15
Obsidian Hardness: 6 HP: 10
Wrought iron* Hardness: 10 HP: 20
Bronze* Hardness: 12 HP: 30
True steel* Hardness: 15 HP: 40

Light hafted weapons

Bone Hardness: 8 HP: 3
Obsidian Hardness: 6 HP: 2
Wrought iron* Hardness: 10 HP: 10
Bronze* Hardness: 12 HP: 10
True steel* Hardness: 15 HP: 20

*A hafted weapon only counts as metal if both the haft and the head are made of metal. Metal heads on other hafts count as bone weapons.

New skills

Craft: Bonecrafter and Craft: Obsidian Crafter

These new applications of the Craft skill allow one to work with raw bone / obsidian and turn it into a craftable material. The skill is also required to repair any tools and weapons made with these materials, though crafting new weapons is covered by Craft: Weaponsmith skill.

New feats

Optimised Combat

Years of practice taught you to minimise the wear on your weapon, so you can fight with it another day.

Benefit: A character with the Optimised Combat feat automatically passes all Post-Battle Damage tests.

Normal: A character has to take a Post-Battle Damage test for their most-used weapon at the end of every combat encounter.

Special: A Fighter may take Optimised Combat as one of their bonus feats.

Bronze Metallurgy

You have mastered the secret of producing bronze alloy from copper and secret ingredients.

Prerequisites: Metalsmith

Benefit: A character with this feat can use Craft (blacksmith) skill to produce bronze. A pound of bronze requires one pound of copper and an ounce of arsenic. Put the product’s value in silver pieces when calculating the creation time.

At the end of smelting, the character needs to take a Constitution Save or suffer poisoning from vapours produced during smelting (primary and secondary damage: 1d2 Constitution damage).

Special: You do not require this feat to cast bronze items from smelted bronze. Treat such items as regular metal items for the sake of crafting.

Thoughts? :wink:

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I love this material. For my campaign I might try and simplify some of the rules to minimize bookkeeping but the background and thought that went into each material is great! I could see this as the foundation for a new Athasian Net Book on Athasian Material Science (only someone pick a better name for it).

One (pedantic) question about your use of the term ‘blacksmith’: does a blacksmith specifically refer to someoene who works with iron? in the way a whitesmith works with tin? (no idea what they call people who work copper or bronze)

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They’re called braziers.

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Traditionally, in Dark Sun, bone, stone, wood, and obsidian are the typical alternatives for metal. I generally assume that smiths have made some advancements with these materials, so while you’re never going to find a mundane obsidian sword that’s worth anything (it’d break too easily), you could find a wooden sword with obsidian “teeth” for cutting.

For larger structures, there are several possibilities. Mekilot bones were mentioned above, but the use of resins and other bonding agents to strengthen bones or bind stones in ways that make them harder to break would be expected, or to make loops and other structures. It’s reasonable that someone, at some point, has developed treatments that help improve bone, wood, or stone weapons, which, while not as good as metal weapons, are functional and effective. Designs for cages that can hold half-giants without metal would also be expected. Expensive designs likely require hard-to-acquire materials, such as chitin or bone from difficult to kill animals.

Claws from a dune reapers, plates from a bulette or mastyrial, mountain stalker leather, and other exotic materials would be incorporated in Athasian equivalents of plate or scale mail, swords, and the like.

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Re-reading this, your Optimised Combat feat reminded me of an article I read recently about how study of the fracture lines in bronze weapons showed that bronze age warriors were training to use them in a very particular way to avoid damaging their weapons:
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/en-garde-scientists-stage-sword-fights-study-bronze-age-warfare-180974705/

I started collecting the feedback to this post into one document.
I wanted to start the document with a list of important physical properties for materials so that we could compare various materials.
After diving into wikipedia I quickly got out of my depth as I tried to sort through the meaning of things like specific strength, tensile strength, Young’s modulus, specific stiffness, Moh’s scale and fracture toughness.
Anyone want to take a stab at what properties are most important? Though I started by looking at material strength and flexibility, I ended by thinking that perhaps density and brittleness might be more important. (at least for role playing purposes)

Edit: after posting this I found this which may be the best answer?

I began my delve into Dark Sun Materials Sciences looking at hardness. I was quite surprised to see that teeth and bone are harder than iron – it really made me start to question why non-metal weapons should have any sort of penalty relative to metal (or likewise why metal weapons should have any sort of bonus). Seeing glass as harder than all three immediately exposed the flaw at looking only at hardness, but here are some items on the Moh’s scale for those that are interested:
Gold 2
Claws 2.5
Silver 3
Copper 3
Brass 3
Iron 4
Ordinary Steel 4.5
Bone 5
Tooth 5
Obsidian 5
Glass 5.5
Jade 6
Quartz 7
Emerald 7.5
Tungsten 8
Hardened Steel 8
Ruby 9
Diamond 10

Hardness obviously doesn’t take malleability, fragility, tensile strength, frangibility, and other characteristics into account.

After all bones, even large ones, can be snapped with only 15 lbs of force at the right spot and direction. Diamonds can fracture along the crystalline bonding lines if you drop them on stone or concrete and they happen to hit just right. That’s why they cut diamonds by hitting a blade with an object.

Hardness is too abstract to represent reality, just like HP is not health and ‘hits’ (later damage) is not actual wounds but instead a generic representation of combat interaction which has health related effects tied to it.

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Agreed – in my research I read about fracturing due to torsional stress on bones more often than I am comfortable with. :stuck_out_tongue:

I did finally put this table together, thinking it might be of some use, some time:

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There is also a significant difference between living bone, dried bone, and treated bones in their properties.

Now I’m curious as to what research exactly you are doing, but feel free to not answer if it trespasses into the personal information sector.

no worries, just game oriented research - my google searches have sometimes landed me in some academic papers, usually medical papers, though there was one paper I was looking at that discussed how long different materials from antiquity would last over time, nominally aimed at identifying materials in which to store nuclear waste.

so I put together people’s feedback on this post into one document (beginning of Athasian Materials netbook?).
I tried to upload it here but we can’t upload PDF so I posted it on my Patreon: DS Materials Science