I’m talking original Gith, as in pre-split. The Mind Flayers were here with the Gith enslaved, and the champion Gith, the person the race is named after had made a fortress here to assault them, and when the split came after Gith’s death, the Githyanki took it over. The Githzerai sabotaged the Githyanki here and they became the degenerates they are today…
The Gith probably didn’t destroy all the Mind Flayers, but they forced them into hiding. There are Hej-kin, Durro, Duergar, and many other races on Athas that are degenerate or changed by the Mind Flayers, there is just so much evidence ethnologically that they were and ARE still on Athas.
Never did I say it was canon, I was just spit balling. Maybe you canon lawyers need to lighten up… The whole world is psionic though, that is the most obvious clue that Mind Flayers had been there, who know maybe it was even their home world, before the Blue Age… The whole planet could be from a totally different plane than it’s current one…
The language and tone of your post, is relation to the language all of your and our previous posts, led EVERYONE here (not just me) to assume you were talking canon - things to be found in the books.
I’m gonna politely ask you to roll your “canon-lawyer” dislike back. I don’t want or need it.
If you had used spit-balling indicative words like: “maybe” or “what if”, or something, I (and presumably others) would have understood what you meant and I’d have happily run with it.
I legit thought that you thought that Mindflayers and the pre-Gith were from Athas. I thought one of us had gone insane; i was worried for a minute it was me.
No I’m not going to roll my comment back, I am tired of getting harassed by the canon lawyers. D&D is not a set in stone universe, the DMGs state specifically that you can do and think creatively to create your own versions of their content. Every game is different.
I don’t want you to wear a straight jacket of canon for your games. I WOULD like you to clearly telegraph your meaning in posts - a bar I hold myself and everyone else to.
If I said: “The Dragon of Tyr fought Mordenkainen once, and lost.” (Sounds like a thing i believe to be true)
My meaning reads differently than if I said: “I think that if the Dragon of Tyr fought Mordenkainen, the Dragon would lose.” (Clearly a musing)
That is my point. I’d love to understand what everyone means when they post things here - this would help.
I’m happy to BS with you and everyone else about what could be or how to jam outside things into DS.
That wasn’t a very kind comment …
… this is my one artistic outlet that I can have, and my players seem to really enjoy playing what they are playing.
Keep your “canon lawyer” disgust. I’m LITERALLY only asking for the same respect you have/are. Different folks like different stuff - I GET to like canon.
No one here is telling you your DS is wrong, just that we didn’t understand your meaning.
See how not one other person could understand the intent or meaning of the OP? He insisted that 10 levels in the “shadowmage” prestige class are better than 10 levels in the shadow adept (from FR) prestige class. At the end of the thread after much requests for clarification, it turns out that “shadowmage” is the OP’s unpublished homebrew.
If you start with a qualifier, such as “in my campaign”, or “perhaps”, you will have less encounters with canon lawyers.
I like the idea of Athasian illithids being native to DS, rather than a transplanted/lost colony from the rest of the multiverse.
That way you can play with them being the ‘original’ illithid forerunners that went in to dominate the universe of the far-future. Or you can have the Githyanki popping in to destroy their hated enemies, only for them to not actially be their racial foe. Or neither. Apologies, the trickster in me just likes the idea of messing with people’s expectations.
Plus I really liked the idea of Barien and being converted by his assigned race - I can’t see Rajaat going after a non-Rebirth race with a Champion.
I like the idea of the rhulisti being enslaved by the original illithid empire and revolting like the gith forerunners but using the flayers own tech against them.
I’m talking original Gith, as in pre-split. The Mind Flayers were here with the Gith enslaved, and the champion Gith, the person the race is named after had made a fortress here to assault them, and when the split came after Gith’s death, the Githyanki took it over. The Githzerai sabotaged the Githyanki here and they became the degenerates they are today…
The Gith probably didn’t destroy all the Mind Flayers, but they forced them into hiding. There are Hej-kin, Durro, Duergar, and many other races on Athas that are degenerate or changed by the Mind Flayers, there is just so much evidence ethnologically that they were and ARE still on Athas.
I just came in this conversation, backtracked to this quoted text, and it looks like you’re saying Mind Flayers “were here with the Gith enslaved”.
Looks to me like you’re referring to established, published lore, aka canon. It’s indeed in your choice of language.
Since people are talking about canon, this is a good time to reintroduce this topic.
Could mind flayers exist on Athas? Could robots? What about a war forged? A White robed Wizard of High Sorcery from the Dragonlance setting? Sorcerers? What about binders or warlocks? How can you introduce these elements without warping the setting? This is the question.
Sorcerers and Mind Flayets seem pointless to add to the setting lore-wise IMO, but I’d let a player run a Sorcerer in a game.
I 100% support random extra races in hidden pockets of Athas (like catfolk or whatever), as new Races, or un-Cleansed races from other continents/ lands.
Shardminds and Warforged seem like they’d break the resource management aspects of the setting - but i feel like they’ll fit in well otherwise.
We’ve included Pennarin’s Hiramin Highlands a bit northeast of the Dead Lands at the end of the Great Salt Flat for the larger southern area map in Beyond the Dead Lands, we probably won’t be including it in any comprehensive detail but I do have a basic metaplot going back to the Blue Age and tying into the Silt Archipelago fan netbook- the basic idea is that Oshul and “Sigorthians” from the SA netbook are all connected to a massive Nature Bender stronghold stretching under the southern sea of silt, with its outer tunnels stretching as far south as Biga-Fe-Tye in the Dead Lands.
While maybe not their “capital” it was a major research center that produced lifeshaped horrors and was their major front in the war against Tyr’Agi. Leaving it open ended as to whether the Flayers are lifeshaped parasites that infested green age rebirth races, illithids from before the blue age who crawled up and repurposed the lifeshaping tech, ect seemed prudent. Making them another rebirth race just doesn’t mesh well with the known structure of the Champions, but by no means does that preclude their existence on Athas. My personal take is maybe a mix of both, that the Rhulisti accidentally recreated ceromorphs and a few flayers might have been on Athas to escape the Githyanki garrison at Yathazor. Tying into a larger idea that lifeshaping is somewhat derived from the “biotechnology” used by mind flayers and the old Spelljammer Illithid Empire, and that long, long ago the ancestors of the Rhulisti were “space halflings” similar to the Anadian Halflings in Faerun’s sphere, imprisoned on Athas as a “penal colony” (or just crashed there), being trapped due to its unique characteristics making spell jamming so difficult.
Looking at various fan attempts to map out the spelljammer lanes, Athas would probably be within the territory of the old Jua, which fits well given the implication the Kreen were ascended by them.
About 50% of that is definitely a thing, the rest sounds like internet head-canon.