That old chestnut? Mind Flayers on Athas

I’m talking original Gith, as in pre-split. The Mind Flayers were here with the Gith enslaved, and the champion Gith, the person the race is named after had made a fortress here to assault them, and when the split came after Gith’s death, the Githyanki took it over. The Githzerai sabotaged the Githyanki here and they became the degenerates they are today…

The Gith probably didn’t destroy all the Mind Flayers, but they forced them into hiding. There are Hej-kin, Durro, Duergar, and many other races on Athas that are degenerate or changed by the Mind Flayers, there is just so much evidence ethnologically that they were and ARE still on Athas.

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I know the Gith forerunner history. Not sure about evidence of derro and duergar existing on Athas though.

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I never found any references in any source in all the versions of Dark Sun that mention Derro or Duergar.

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:face_with_raised_eyebrow: :thinking: About 50% of that is definitely a thing, the rest sounds like internet head-canon.

Sources?

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Never did I say it was canon, I was just spit balling. Maybe you canon lawyers need to lighten up… The whole world is psionic though, that is the most obvious clue that Mind Flayers had been there, who know maybe it was even their home world, before the Blue Age… The whole planet could be from a totally different plane than it’s current one…

No.

The language and tone of your post, is relation to the language all of your and our previous posts, led EVERYONE here (not just me) to assume you were talking canon - things to be found in the books.

I’m gonna politely ask you to roll your “canon-lawyer” dislike back. I don’t want or need it.

If you had used spit-balling indicative words like: “maybe” or “what if”, or something, I (and presumably others) would have understood what you meant and I’d have happily run with it.

I legit thought that you thought that Mindflayers and the pre-Gith were from Athas. I thought one of us had gone insane; i was worried for a minute it was me. :upside_down_face:

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I had the same thoughts. “Perhaps”, “maybe” go a long way to prevent misunderstandings in canon.

Athas is harsh. The occasional wanderer is often eaten by a gith lurking nearby.

Athas’s canon is harsh too. The occasional wanderer is often eaten by a canon-lawyer lurking nearby.

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“Yum, tastes like Journal…”

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No I’m not going to roll my comment back, I am tired of getting harassed by the canon lawyers. D&D is not a set in stone universe, the DMGs state specifically that you can do and think creatively to create your own versions of their content. Every game is different.

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Please pay attention.

I don’t want you to wear a straight jacket of canon for your games. I WOULD like you to clearly telegraph your meaning in posts - a bar I hold myself and everyone else to.

If I said: “The Dragon of Tyr fought Mordenkainen once, and lost.” (Sounds like a thing i believe to be true)

My meaning reads differently than if I said: “I think that if the Dragon of Tyr fought Mordenkainen, the Dragon would lose.” (Clearly a musing)

That is my point. I’d love to understand what everyone means when they post things here - this would help.

I’m happy to BS with you and everyone else about what could be or how to jam outside things into DS.

That wasn’t a very kind comment …
… this is my one artistic outlet that I can have, and my players seem to really enjoy playing what they are playing.

Keep your “canon lawyer” disgust. I’m LITERALLY only asking for the same respect you have/are. Different folks like different stuff - I GET to like canon.

No one here is telling you your DS is wrong, just that we didn’t understand your meaning.

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Have a read of this thread here. It’s two short pages.

See how not one other person could understand the intent or meaning of the OP? He insisted that 10 levels in the “shadowmage” prestige class are better than 10 levels in the shadow adept (from FR) prestige class. At the end of the thread after much requests for clarification, it turns out that “shadowmage” is the OP’s unpublished homebrew.

If you start with a qualifier, such as “in my campaign”, or “perhaps”, you will have less encounters with canon lawyers.

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I like the idea of Athasian illithids being native to DS, rather than a transplanted/lost colony from the rest of the multiverse.

That way you can play with them being the ‘original’ illithid forerunners that went in to dominate the universe of the far-future. Or you can have the Githyanki popping in to destroy their hated enemies, only for them to not actially be their racial foe. Or neither. Apologies, the trickster in me just likes the idea of messing with people’s expectations.

Plus I really liked the idea of Barien and being converted by his assigned race - I can’t see Rajaat going after a non-Rebirth race with a Champion.

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I like the idea of the rhulisti being enslaved by the original illithid empire and revolting like the gith forerunners but using the flayers own tech against them.

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I’m talking original Gith, as in pre-split. The Mind Flayers were here with the Gith enslaved, and the champion Gith, the person the race is named after had made a fortress here to assault them, and when the split came after Gith’s death, the Githyanki took it over. The Githzerai sabotaged the Githyanki here and they became the degenerates they are today…

The Gith probably didn’t destroy all the Mind Flayers, but they forced them into hiding. There are Hej-kin, Durro, Duergar, and many other races on Athas that are degenerate or changed by the Mind Flayers, there is just so much evidence ethnologically that they were and ARE still on Athas.

I just came in this conversation, backtracked to this quoted text, and it looks like you’re saying Mind Flayers “were here with the Gith enslaved”.

Looks to me like you’re referring to established, published lore, aka canon. It’s indeed in your choice of language.

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