That’s also supported by canon material: for instance during the Cleansing Wars the Champion were “just” champions, than we have Farcluun, who’s a Dragon but not a Champion or a SM.
And from what I saw in a thread about the lords of the Dead Lands, one of them got recently bound with an Elemental Vortex, so he became a sort of “SM” (in the sense that he can grant divine spells).
And wow, I almost forgot the Sadira vs Nok fight… Seeing a wizard with just a basic training in the Way defeating a master psionicist like Nok in a mental duel was nonsense. Unless “Sadira’s player character” has loaded dices or cheats with her rolls
Depends on how much weight you give to certain cannon material. There is a strong argument that the second boxed set misinterpreted a number of the details revealed in The Cerulean Storm, and that’s before you get into Lynn Abbey. But regardless of the champions/dragons/vortices problem, Farcluun is a cannon example that the dragon transformation isn’t everything.
True, but the explanation for why it happened is virtually nonexistent, and directly contradicts a boatload of cannon (this ties into my comment above. Still, that Dregoth Ascending also would go with living vortices surviving the death of their hosts does add weight to the possibility that it was a deliberate change and not just a continuity error. It’s a change I like, personally, but it’s worth noting) Also, the stats for the lords of the dead lands are ten kinds of nonsense and riddled with errors.
Yeah, I don’t expect high art from Troy Denning, but some more thorough plotting to maintain basic consistency in character abilities would have helped the series immensely. (this also applies to items, incidentally. Kt’s Cane, for instance, aged him from old to dead in a handful of uses, and gave Agis grey hair when it was used near him. Sadira uses the thing like it’s giving away free candy with every spell, and it doesn’t appear that she ages a day.)
It’s worth remembering that, during the TSR era, there was little to no communication between the game design department and the books department. So, as time goes on, you see greater levels of inconsistency between game material and the stuff in the novels. This matters when you’re trying to figure out what material to use and what material to ignore - because one set of sources simply weren’t in communication with the other set of sources.
As far as the game material is concerned, the distinctions between dragons, champions, and sorcerer-monarchs are clear and consistent. If you start to include material from the novels, you will run into inconsistencies very quickly. It’s worth bearing in mind when deciding how to model your own personal DS games.
The question of how Bill Slavicsek came to his conclusion about Borys being the creator of the metamorphosis process is an interesting one. The most clear inference that I and many others made is that Slavicsek simply made a mistake. However, Slavicsek’s mistakes are our canon at the end of the day.
The champion vs dragon vs sorcerer monarch is one of the most vicious debates in Dark Sun circles, and has the least impact on the game as it is played itself. To my mind, ‘shadow wizards’ drawing power from the Black, ‘necromancer’ drawing power from the Gray, and ‘ceruleans’ drawing power from the Cerulean Storm are the far more important question. No concept has been more deleterious to the Dark Sun setting than the special energy sources introduced in Defilers and Preservers: The Wizards of Athas. Ironically, defilers and preservers becomes a misnomer, because under these new rules defiling and preserving henceforth becoming a meaningless concept because of the special energy sources. Thereafter, every PC, without exception, was either a shadow wizard, cerulean, or necromancer. At this stage, preservers were defiler lite.
Needless to say, none of these special energy sources exist in my conception of the Dark Sun setting. I realize this is a fantasy setting, but a little realism goes a long way.
That is very clearly the case. Either Slavicsek misinterpreted the details in the Prism Pentad, or he innovated. @phaaf_glien and I raised this issue on the old Wizards forums. I remember Kamelion there too, saying much as he is saying now. Its a very old and contentious debate, but as I mention above, not even close to the most important one.
Don’t make me post my giant quotes document again!
I do agree with much of your argument about Defilers & Preservers, though (although I used a variant on the system presented in the Preserver’s Choice article). Mind you, I’ve never seen one of the non-standard wizards in play so I’ve never had to deal with the thematic issues - nobody ever wanted to play one, so preservers and defilers remained the default in my games. (A player was going to play a necromancer in my upcoming game, but ditched the idea because of the kit’s inability to multiclass).
If I recall correctly, ceruleans actually put themselves in real danger and had real limitations on their abilities, plus rajaat’s elemental power is a logical source of energy. Now, I have never run a game set post prism pentad, but I feel that ceruleans are by far the least problematic of the three.
Necromancers, on the other hand…I don’t know. Undead special powers come from somewhere, so I have no problem with the Gray producing energy. I do, however, have a major problem with non undead spell casters being able to draw on that energy consequence free. Personally, I would ban it for living creatures, or inflict horrific consequences for doing so.
Shadow wizards…yeah, I got nothing. There is a reason that 4e dark sun ignored the Black completely, because what little we knew about it was confusing and contradictory (living creatures without a life force? darkness making creatures from a dark dimension die? Thanks Troy Denning). It’s a mess, and nothing we know could possibly explain the existence of shadow wizards (how are they drawing power from a plane that lacks energy or true substance?).
My choice is that anything too special is unavailable as a starting character. You don’t get to start play as a Dray, or a shadow wizard, or any of a number of weird things I will let someone eventually play. Generally you have to have met them in the game to be able to play one. Then you need to die so you can get a new character. Luckily its dark sun.
I agree with your opinion about Ceruleans and the such.
Since i like the concept of arcane caster in the Deadlands, I accept Necromancers but I’d make something like “a living creature would slowly wither and die using powes from the Grey”. An undead would’ve no problems channeling the powers of the Grey, but the on living creature would be a sort of “auto delifement” (think the effect of Dragon Magic, but on the caster itself).
Unpopular opinion here, but I like Ceruleans, Shadow Wizards and Necromancers. It makes perfect sense that Athasian wizards would draw upon planar fuel sources, after all, what have clerics been doing since the Green Age?
That said, they should be rare as hell. Further, if clerics can get dragged into planar politicking, I see no reason why Shadow Wizards, Necromancers and Ceruleans shouldn’t as well. Ceruleans are going to have a daily temptation from Tithian (and possibly Rajaat). Necromancers are going to find that although they can control undead, the more powerful denizens of the Gray are going to want mortal pawns as well. As for Shadow Wizards, well, I’m keeping quiet on that score in case one of my players reads this forum. Suffice to say, Tom will be finding out soon what Shadow Wizards get dragged into.
Maybe unpopular among DMs, but in my anecdotal experiences, these alternative power source wizards are very popular among players, who correctly perceive that these alternative power sources get them out of the problem of defiled.
My own view is that Preserving vs Defiling, although a key part of the DS setting, and a great thing for RP, is a massive pain in the arse rules wise and slows any combat down to a crawl.
In every DS campaign I’ve played or DM’d, preservers have essentially behaved like normal wizards, while defilers had accelerated levelling (2nd), cool visuals (any ruleset) or added mechanics (great Raze feats in 3.X).
The only time its interesting is when the wizard either slips up in front of a crowd (cue pitchforks and burning torches), wants to repent of his defiling ways, or the preserver has to defile for the greater good.
I’ve let one player in my current (3.5 Ed) campaign take the shadow wizard PrC. There won’t be anymore SWs, or any Necromancers. I might allow a Cerulean if the campaign advances past FY10 (we’re in FY2 now) and a RP hook permitted it.
