What creature type is an Avangion?

Pssst. You are on this site right now.

lol. Yes indeed, but I do not have access to post it here since the arena doesn’t support attachments nor do I have the ability to raise or edit a web page on the main Athas.org site. Insofar as I’m aware, it needs to be hosted here as well. Technically. If one of the Templars or Council members (or a past post by one) can correct my understanding, I would appreciate it.

I am hoping that they will finish their review soon and release it on the site directly.

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Perhaps I’m missing something but from my books there was never a crunchy method for how SK provided spells. Just the fluff about living vortices funneling elemental energy to the champions which they themselves can’t use but can redirect to their followers. They describe it as everytime a templar casts a spell the SK gets a mental “ping” of the requested spell. Most of the time for lower level spells the SK is so desensitized to those hundreds of pings it just grants it without thought but higher level spells may get the SK attention.

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There may not be a special different mechanic for Dark Sun, but there is one for D&D as a whole.

Thus, I’m looking to nail down the exact mechanics in Dark Sun so that there is a default for DMs who don’t care or like it to use, and a baseline for DMs to ignore or create away from when they have something else that fits their story better.

In keeping with my hyper-focus on the rules, I like to have a complete and working and self-logical framework and system of rules in place, with optional variants for everyone to use, or alter, as they see fit. But I want a good one in place as the default baseline in the first place, which D&D failed to complete.

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in 3e? Citation needed. 2e had all kinds of methods, but 3e hand waved it a lot more, and 4e and 5e didn’t even try to explain.

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Look in the SRD: Divine Ranks and Powers. One of the powers is Grant Spells, which gives rules.

Deities and Demigods also suggests an alternate rule which permits entities with Divine Rank 0 (such as Elemental Lords and certain evil outsiders) the Grant Spells ability, which would be almost a fit for SKs… if you don’t mind them having basic immortality too. Normally, Divine Rank 0 cannot grant spells.

See also the PHB spell Imbue with Spell Ability. One customized greater version later, and problem solved.


Seen it, been there, done that, played one, fought one. I was curious if you had a different source, because your claim was rather different.

Actually, there is a way for a very specific subsection of quasi-deities (divine rank 0) to grant spells in 3rd edition, without alternate rules. A dragon with all 12 levels of Dragon Ascendent (Draconomicon), can have servants who take the feat, Servant of A Dragon Ascendent (Dragons of Faerun), and grant divine spells to them. They can even have unique cleric and initiate feats!

Anyway, the thing is, here is your claim:

…Which seems to be based on what you think should be in the rules, as opposed to what is written, and trying to solve a problem that doesn’t actually exist in them. 10 levels of cleric have nothing to do with anything, as far as I can tell.

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In nijineko is merely concerned about this -

Grant Spells

A deity automatically grants spells and domain powers to mortal divine spellcasters who pray to it. Most deities can grant spells from the cleric spell list, the ranger spell list, and from three or more domains. Deities with levels in the druid class can grant spells from the druid spell list, and deities with paladin levels can grant spells from the paladin spell list. A deity can withhold spells from any particular mortal as a free action; once a spell has been granted, it remains in the mortal’s mind until expended.

It can be modified for a Sorcerer Monarch. It doesn’t seem like a big deal to include something like this in the description.

I took this to be homebrew. Ninjineko, can you clarify?

It’s not homebrew, at least I’m pretty sure I read that somewhere that wasn’t homebrew… but I also haven’t found where I read that. Very frustrating. I’ll keep looking and if I find it again I’ll let everyone know.

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Any update on this? It would be nice if we could nip this in the bud.

I have never seen this ‘10 levels in x class’ thing for a god/power to grant spells. If you go back to the 1st Ed Legends and Lore book there are several examples of gods who have no cleric levels. Once you get to 2nd Ed onwards you don’t get stat blocks for powers, only their avatars. Maybe that’s where this 10 levels is coming from?

Everything I recall about powers says they either grant spells to their clerics without restrictions, or their maximum spell level granted is based on what became Divine Rank - Demipowers could grant up to 5th lvl cleric/druid spells, Lesser up to 6th, and Intermediate and Greater up to 7th. I can’t recall whether it was Hero or Quasi powers who could grant up to 4th. Plus if you resided on the same plane as your Power you could get an extra level of spells (so in WGR5 Iuz the Evil, Iuz the Demipower can grant up to 6th lvl spells to his clerics living in Oerth).

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