An INCAN themed sorcerer king and his kingdom

I tend to agree. I’m of the mind that SMs/Champions were limited in numbers (no more than 20). Plenty of room for other non-SM Rajaat minions or non-Rajaat minions to be rulers of cities outside the Table Lands.

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If you go for a “no Rajaat” or “different Rajaat” setting, you could make it so any psion-arcanist has the ability to become a Sorcerer King, if sufficiently powerful and determined.

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This is where I see an issue as the canon or metaplot can be become prohibitive.

  1. We dont know the size of Athas - but lets just say its the same as Earth - depending on what edition (2E or 4E) you use, the map of all known Athas, to include the Tyr region is about the size of France and Spain combined. Which is pretty small.

  2. If we take it that these are the only few SM’s left why on Athas would they congregate in one of the LEAST verdant areas when they are surrounded by verdant areas many time the size of the Tyr region, even without including the Kreen empire.

  3. If you say because of Rajaat’s Prison - I say these folks are the most powerful beings on the planet and can conceivably teleport from anywhere across the planet at the beckoning of the dragon, it wouldn’t matter if they lived 1 mile or 10,000 miles away. - they’ve got the means to make it there instantly.

  4. If you say because of the Levy - see #3 above -via Wormhole, permanent teleportation circle, etc. and no I dont mean make one into the valley of dust and fire.

The canon of Dark Sun works mainly if you stay within the confines of the Tyr Region, once you delve outside that you’ve got to come up with new ideas for why this or that happened without the crutch of Ol’ Scary Rajaat and his Genocide War. Considering god-level intelligence in all of them and they never figured out that there was no Champion snuffing out the Halflings? (Hey just skip those little guys, they’re harmless for 2k years.)

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Yeah. I don’t buy it. I’ll suspend disbelief about the Last Sea because it is protected by the Mind Lord’s (I also massively power them up). But the ‘Kreen Empire’ just sitting on some of the most pristine land on Athas? It’s a hard sell. Go back to the Original Campaign Setting for more versimilitude. The later products did not aim for coherence.

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Finally I can see where the arguments for “First box set only” people come from.

Yeah, Rajaat being a world destroyer and the Tablelands being the choice of the Sorcerer Monarchs only works if the Tablelands is the focus of the entire setting. Sadly, it seems to me they don’t really supply enough good reasons for it being so beyond fear of the unknown. But that’s Dark Sun for you-- it’s always had issues with plot holes and contradictions (not least because the various writers didn’t talk to each other enough).

Allow me to present some alternative reasons for the world being much bigger than the Tablelands, and yet the SM’s tend to stay where they are:

1.) Simple logistics. The Sorcerer Monarchs couldn’t be bothered to start yet another fight with more races once they were busy managing the crazed Dragon and jailing Rajaat. And some of the other empires elsewhere were just too big to take on without a coordinated and concentrated effort, a lot of mobilising, and a long distance to travel. Teleportation can take the SM’s anywhere, but it requires a LOT of magical energy. The other side of the planet is more trouble than its worth, especially when any troops would have to spend months trying to cross deep silt.

2.) The other lands might be more verdant, but they’re also more dangerous for humans. Maybe monsters, maybe powerful entities, maybe the land itself is too toxic for humans. It fits with Athasian evolution seeming to prioritise insects and reptiles (see what the Pristine Tower did to people in The Amber Enchantress, among other sources).
It’s fairly easy to understand the SM’s settling for the “kind of rubbish but safest place for humans” part of the planet. As selfish as they are, they still need their subjects to stay alive.

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The problem isn’t that the rest of the world is BIGGER than the tablelands, the problem is that the rest of the world is BETTER than the tablelands.

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It’s not better. It’s just different, and benefits from the concept of novelty.

But you are right that the rest of the world must be built in such a way so as to preserve the reason why the SM’s and humans have stayed put, which does create its own dilemmas. And the easy and lazy solution is certainly to just say the rest of the world doesn’t exist.

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The rest of the world exists but was unknown to the original Wanderer. The Revised Campaign Setting Wanderer is a different fellow. He doesn’t even write the same.

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You could argue (and it would probably be a bit of stretch), that when the SMs first settled in the region after the cleansing wars it was relatively ok by environmental terms, but the very presence of the SMs as well as internal conflicts between them, and the dragon rampaging all over have left the region much less desirable then it was, but by that point they were to settled in to just move with everything they have already built.

The Dragon did ravage everything in the 1st few centuries after his transformation. It was part of the reasoning behind stopping Dregoth and Kalak from completing their transformations.

I’m sure the other SM’s not wanting to be far less powerful than the new Dragons was also a factor, but mass Defiling of the last was a STATED reason for the assassinations.

So, it would figure that the Tablelands were quite a bit more verdant in the recent past. The question (as always) is HOW much more verdant…

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Inca is an excellent addition, though I would be approaching it from a different angle than what you suggest. The Inca are a magnificent example of what can be accomplished WITHOUT IRON. Understanding how they built an empire on mountain tops stretching over the Andes without the use of iron aptly demonstrates what a city state in Athas is truly capable of. That is before you factor in supernatural powers and beasts of burden.

Heck, let’s throw in the fact they didn’t have writing. Sound familiar to Athasians? See what they can do with the right amount of quipu? Knotted strings for accounting.

Me being me, I would be more interesting in integrating these elements into existing city states. However, let’s ride your idea of a new region or city.

Given how reclusive and independent such a society could be, I would be fine with putting them in a mountain range, or even mountainous Silt Sea islands. You need a long series of pinnacles for them to be perched on, that is it. No need to place them on the other side of the planet.

The Inca kept their empire functioning just fine without giant beasts, but this being fantasy it would be silly to exclude them. I think you would want a guild or tradition of mahouts. Specialists in a specific kind of flying beast of burden.

What are their relation with aaracokra? They would be a flying race competing with a non-flying race for the same real estate!

With horgars, I would also recommend Delvers. See my posts for info on those.

It needn’t be far away I think. Just inaccessible.

All good ideas. However, I submit this. Why does it need to be a sorcerer king? Can’t we do without one? If we cast aside the idea of a sorcerer king altogether, we open up a lot of creative possibilities.

I am sure the other sorcerer kings would be quite passionate about making sure he paid the levy regardless.

FRICK YES! Even the first video game had those!

Well worth investigating as another group without metal, and sometimes writing. Often had to deal with tight resources as well.

That is part of my personal drive to enhance and build upon accepted canon. You make some powerful arguments. Going outside of the Tyr regions carries with it some unique risks and challenges.

Very true.

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As I have said, it isn’t have to be a sorcerer king, but it is Alvar’s idea that it is, and we just tried to expand on that idea.
Also, the idea of a cowardly champion is somewhat intriguing to me, as well as him binding a spirit of the land to leech of its powers to grant spells to his followers.

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What if the Wanderer is a franchise? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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Hi
First, I consider that the rest of Athas is not better than the tyr surrounding regions
In fact most of the athas planet and even ral and guthay (the moons) are quite dangerous or inhospitable to life
The proof is vast regions such as salt and obsidian plains and the sea of silt

Well, so after those barriers another similar harsh World awaits

In incan related oral tradition there are creatures similar to aarakocra (condor men) Stone men such as certain elemental or even dwarves (pururaucas) yuanti and others

The reason why I make the incan King a sorcerer monach is that those reign is the most similar to real life inca emperors of the past
Yep, incan monarchs have a somewhat romantic idea as being kind but some oral tradition compilations show them making very evil things such as forcing entire human groups to settle far away from their previous land, also there are hints of an incan like inquisition forcing conquested people to align to incan pantheon gods

More likely any extra sorcerer King broke contact with others because natural athasian barriers such as the sea of silt

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Out of curiosity, what race did you envision he was in charge of cleansing?

I guess i can choose between
Any races not mentioned in Dark sun 2e like centaurs (some sources talk about pennarin the centaurs crusher), bugbears. Yuanti, trogodytes and even illithids, drows, beholders and others underground races and waterborn races (the sea of silt started forming in the cleansing wars era if I remember well)
any of the races introduced in 4e will do also,I mean minotaurs, tieflings, eladrin, giths, gnolls, kalashtar
Even I red that some dms introduced tortles, tabaxi, ettercap, genies, psiforged (athasian warforged) and those zombielike races from raveloft as thinking zombies among races that make sense on athas

Guess yuanti make more sense as a similar good aligned race exist in incan related lore, so that explain their evilness

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Good Yuan-Ti! How about that?

Isn’t there a thread around here someplace about good/neutral feathered Yaun-Ti?

TsentI are serpentina people whi protector the water bodies, also amarus (the equivalent of dragons) are serpentine like in incan related mythos
So the destruction of the water bodies make yuanti evil

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Yeah, not what i meant, but sure.