Arcane Slayer Prestige Class

[raddu (Robert Adducci)]

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Although, there is a lot of going on with racial prestige classes and racial paragon classes, I was trying to create a PrC for any race. I hope you like it.

ARCANE SLAYER
“All wizzards must die!” — Craesek, dwarven arcane slayer.

Arcane Slayers blame wizards for destroying the land. They don’t distinguish between defilers and preservers, because even preservers are capable of defiling the earth. An arcane goal is to cleanse athas from all arcane wielders, beings and knowledge. During their drive to wipe out arcane, they developed techniques to be become more efficient against arcane magic and to protect themselves.
Arcane slayer can come from any class but wizards. Every arcane slayer has experienced the destruction of defiling and the result was pure rage and hatred against wizards.
Arcane slayer devoted their lives to make athas free from wizards. Therefore they adventure to find and kill as many wizards as possible. Although they know that the sorcerer monarchs are the greatest arcane beings and capable of the most destruction, they know opposing one them will most likely end their own death.

Hit Die: d8

REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become an arcane slayer a character must fulfill all of the following criteriea.
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, Sense Motive 2
Spells: May not be able to cast arcane spells.
Special: Must have suffered a serious personal loss by the consequence of defiling magic.

CLASS SKILLS
The arcane slayer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifer

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the arcane slayer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane slayers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armor and shield.
Code of Conduct: An arcane slayer’s code of conduct permits him to cast arcane magic or use any arcane magic item or weapon. If an arcane slayer isn’t certain, wether a magic item isn’t made by arcane magic, he won’t wear, use or hold it. An arcane slayer, who breaks his code of conduct, becomes an ex-arcane slayer and looses all his class features of the arcane slayer class. In addition, an arcane slayer cannot willingly ignore seeing another being using arcane magic, or willingly be affected by arcane magic.
Arcane Rage(Ex): As soon as an arcane slayer notices that someone is using arcane magic (for example winning his opposing Sense Motive check against another Bluff check), he must succed a will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + circumstance modifiers, see Table 1-2:Rage Circumstance Modifiers). An arcane slayer doesn’t gain any moral bonuses for this save, and he can decide to willingly fail this save. If he fails his save, he falls into a rage. An arcane slayer, who would be the target of an arcane spell, or who would be affected by another’s defiling, automatically falls into a rage. In a rage, the arcane slayer temporarily gains a +4 bonus to strength, and a +2 morale bonus on all saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. While raging, an arcane slayer cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except for Balance, Escape Artist, Intimidate, and Ride), the Concentration skill, or any abilities that require patience or concentration, nor can he cast spells or activate magic items that require a command word, a spell trigger (such as a wand), or spell completion (such as a scroll) to function. He can use any feat he has except Combat Expertise, item creation feats, and metamagic feats. As long as the rage lasts, the arcane slayer does nothing else than attacking the source of the arcane magic (usually a wizard, who has cast a spell). If being fallen into rage and still be in rage, because of being target by an arcane spell, or because of being affected by defiling, an arcane slayer won’t change his target of his rage, even if one of those conditions would affect his rage from another source. Every round, an arcane slayer can try to end his arcane rage by succeeding another Will save, but for every round of raging the save DC increases by 1 (for example trying to end the arcane rage, after 4 rounds of raging would increase the DC by 4). If the source of an arcane slayer’s rage is destroyed, the rage automatically ends, but he can choose to coninue it on another source that is known to him being one, that targeted him, or that has affected him by defling during his rage. If it comes to a conditon, where the arcane slayer would use his rage towards more than two sources, he follows this priority:

1. Being affected by another’s defiling.
2. Being target of arcane magic.
3. Noticing, a source of arcane magic.
4. The closest source.
   Unlike a barbarian’s ability to rage, the arcane slayer does not become fatigued, when his arcane rage ends. The effect of arcane rage stack with those from any other ability the character may have.
   Arcane Defense (Ex): An arcane slayer’s hatred towards arcane magic provides him +1 morale bonus on all saves that are made against an arcane source. This bonus increases by +1 every two levels (+2 at 3rd, +3 at 5th, +4 at 7th and +5 at 9th level).
   Arcane Sense (Ex): At 2nd level an arcane slayer gains a +2 bonus Sense Motive checks that are made on opposed Bluff checks from beings that try to suppress the somatic components of their spells. In addition this bonus applies to Spellcraft checks to identify casted spells. Instead of determining the school of magic, the arcane slayer can instead determine if the casted spell is arcane or not. These bonuses increase by +2 at 4th level and every two levels thereafter (+4 at 4th, +6 at 6th, +8 at 8th, and +10 at 10th level).
   Vicious Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane slayer who readies an action to disrupt an arcane spellcaster deals double damage if the attack hits.
   Detect Arcane (Su): A 3rd level arcane slayer has learned to detect arcane magic and beings that use arcane magic. Once per day the arcane slayer can detect magic as the spell, but he only detects arcane magic. His caster level is equal to one third his arcane slayer level. At 6th and 9th level he can use this ability a number of times as indicated in the Table 1–1: The Arcane Slayer.
   Smite Arcane (Su): At 4th level an arcane slayer can once per day smite arcane with one normal melee attack. He adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack roll and deals 1 extra points of damage per arcane slayer level. At 8th level the arcane slayer can smite arcane one additional time per day.
   Immunity to Defiling (Su): Beginning at 5th level, the arcane slayer is immune to the effects of defiling. Although, an aracne slayer is immune to the effects of defiling, his arcane rage ability would still automatically start, as it would usually do, if he wouldn’t be immune to the effects.
   Arcane Spell Resistance (Ex): At 7th level the arcane slayer gains spell resistance 10 against arcane spells. At 10th level the arcane spell resistance increases to 20.

TABLE 1–1: THE ARCANE SLAYER
LevelBABFortRefWillSpecial<br />1st+1+0+0+2Arcane defense +1, arcane rage, code of conduct<br />2nd+2+0+0+3Arcane sense +2, vicious strike<br />3rd+3+1+1+3Arcane defense +2, detect arcane (1/day)<br />4th+4+1+1+4Arcane sense +4, smite arcane (1/day)<br />5th+5+1+1+4Arcane defense +3, immunity to defiling<br />6th+6+2+2+5Arcane sense +6, detect arcane (2/day)<br />7th+7+2+2+5Arcane defense +4, arcane spell resistance 10<br />8th+8+2+2+6Arcane sense +8, smite arcane (2/day)<br />9th+9+3+3+6Arcane defense +5, detect arcane (3/day)<br />10th+10+3+3+7Arcane sense +10, arcane spell resistance 20
TABLE 1–2: CONTROL RAGE CIRCUMSTANCE MODIFIERS
CircumstanceWill Save DC modifier*<br />The arcane slayer …<br /> knows that someone can use arcane magic+0<br /> knows that someone has defiled+2<br /> sees someone using arcane magic+5 / +2**<br /> sees someone defiling+10 / +5 <br /><br /> These modifiers don’t stack.<br />* The modifier after the slash is added for every time this event happens during an encounter.
EX-ARCANE SLAYERS
Arcane Slayers who willingly break their Code of Conduct become Ex-arcane slayers and loose all their class features and cannot take anymore levels as arcane slayer. An arcane slayer who takes levels in a class that would give him the ability to cast arcane spells also breaks his Code of Conduct, thus becomes an ex-arcane slayer.

Example for Cotrol Rage: An aracane slayer who meets an individual, of whom he knows that it can use arcane magic, could make a DC 10 Will save to not fall into his rage. If the arcane slayer succeeds his Will save, he can communicate normaly with this individium, but he usually has an unfriendly attitude. If that individium uses arcane magic, the arcane slayer must make another Will save but against DC 15. If the arcane slayer succeeds the save, he does not fall into rage. If the same individium then defiles, the arcane slayer must succeed another Will save (DC 22 = 10 + 10 + 2).

Designer Notes: I first wanted to make it a 5th-level PrC, but I had so many ideas for abilities that I changed it to a 10th-level PrC. I don’t know how balanced all this is, or if some abilites are redundant or not. So keep your comments coming. I’m open for other views and ideas.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

More than a week has passed and no replies. Due the rescheduled upgrade, this thread is going to stay, so maybe there will be someone, who now wants to make any comments.

Originally posted by ruhl-than_sage:

Non-scaling spell resistance isn’t going to help any, I would suggest you change it to 5+character level and 10+character level, instead of just straight up 5 and 10.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Non-scaling spell resistance isn’t going to help any, I would suggest you change it to 5+character level and 10+character level, instead of just straight up 5 and 10.

Usually class features aren’t based on charcter levels. That’s why they are called class feature. But after taking a look at the Complete Divine’s Ur-Priest I tend to increase the bonus. 10 instead of 5 at 7th, and 20 instead of 10 at 10th level. Would that be ok?

Originally posted by ruhl-than_sage:

Usually class features aren’t based on charcter levels. That’s why they are called class feature. But after taking a look at the Complete Divine’s Ur-Priest I tend to increase the bonus. 10 instead of 5 at 7th, and 20 instead of 10 at 10th level. Would that be ok?

That’s true, I suppose I haven’t ever seen a class grant SR before. 10 and 20 are definately better.

Originally posted by ruhl-than_sage:

So these guys are the sort that might fly off the handle and attack the king’s defiler or even the SK himself. I’m afraid the life-expectancy for them seems quite limited.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

So these guys are the sort that might fly off the handle and attack the king’s defiler or even the SK himself. I’m afraid the life-expectancy for them seems quite limited.

Yeah, that what I’m afraid of a bit and tried to limit it with the control rage ability. Besides that, an arcane slayer must actully see the SK in order to fall into rage. I’m not sure how likely it is to actually see one, but I guess it is not too often.

Originally posted by ruhl-than_sage:

Yeah, that what I’m afraid of a bit and tried to limit it with the control rage ability. Besides that, an arcane slayer must actully see the SK in order to fall into rage. I’m not sure how likely it is to actually see one, but I guess it is not too often.

Well they wouldn’t get along well in Nibenay, that’s for sure. The king’s defilers preform magic for the festivals in that city to entertain the crowd. Of course, it’s easy to know when the festivals are and avoid them so as to not go berserk on one of the king’s defilers.

Originally posted by radnovius:

Under code of contact, I would add something to the affect that an Arcane Slayer will not enter an SK’s city unless he does so to slay the SK. Such cities and their peoples are inherently corrupt in the Arcane Slayer’s eyes.

-Radnovius

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Well they wouldn’t get along well in Nibenay, that’s for sure. The king’s defilers preform magic for the festivals in that city to entertain the crowd. Of course, it’s easy to know when the festivals are and avoid them so as to not go berserk on one of the king’s defilers.

Well, I’m considering to merge rage towards arcane and cotroll rage together.

Rage towards arcane (Ex): As soon as an arcane slayer notices that someone is using arcane magic, he must succeed a Will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + circumstance modifiers, see Table 1-2:Rage Circumstance Modifiers). If he fails his save, he flies into a rage and tries to kill that person. During his rage the arcane slayer temporarily gains a +4 bonus to strength, and a +2 morale bonus on all saves, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. This rage towards arcane has the same benefits, penalties and restrictions as the barbarian’s rage class feature (p.25 of the PHB), but unlike the barbarian’s class feature, this rage isn’t limited by a number times per day. An arcane slayer can decide not make a will save in order to autmatically fall into a rage. As long as the rage lasts, the arcane slayer does nothing else than attacking the wielder of arcane magic. If there are more than one beings that are known as arcane magic users, the arcane slayer must succeed a will save for each creature. If he fails two or more of these saves, the arcane slayer attacks the closest of them. The rage lasts until the arcane slayer defeated the arcane magic using creature, or until he succeeds his will save.

What do you think?

Under code of contact, I would add something to the affect that an Arcane Slayer will not enter an SK’s city unless he does so to slay the SK. Such cities and their peoples are inherently corrupt in the Arcane Slayer’s eyes.

I don’t think that’s a good idea. This would make this class almost unplayable, IMHO.

Originally posted by mystictheurge:

What if you had two methods of entering Rage:

See someone defile, (i.e. see the actual defiling results of defiling) save or end up in a rage.

See someone cast arcane magic without defiling (preserver cast a spells, defiler near a tree of life, etc.), you may enter a rage if you choose by making a will save.

You should also clarify that the Slayer must recognize the magic as arcane magic, as DS3 allows wizards to disguise their spells using bluff. You could also potentially allow the Slayer to fail that sense motive roll (or rather take a 1 on the roll), sort of self-justification (“Oh that’s not magic, that was clearly psionics” or some such).

I know it all takes away from the flavor of overwhelming hatred for wizards, but it’s hard to make a class like that a playable one. Of course if you just want it to be an NPC class (or a PC one in a very tailored campaign), what you’ve got seems fine. I do agree that they seem likely to have short life-expectancy.

The rage lasts until the arcane slayer defeated the arcane magic using creature, or until he succeeds his will save.

Also, this suggests that he can continue to make saves while raging in an attempt to regain control, but you don’t specify how often that would be.

Originally posted by Sysane:

I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet, but what if a slayer’s rage was only triggered when subject to the effects of an arcane spell? It would work as follows.

Arcane Frenzy (Ex): When subject to the effects of arcane magic, (whether beneficial or harmful) the arcane slayer becomes enraged. Arcane frenzy has the same benefits, penalties and restrictions as the barbarian’s rage class feature (See SRD), but unlike the barbarian’s rage, arcane frenzy isn’t limited to a number times per day. Each time the arcane slayer is effected by an arcane spell he enters into a fit of rage. So long as the rage lasts, the arcane slayer can do nothing else other than attack the source of the effect that caused him to enter into the rage. If no discernible source can be determined, the arcane slayer will attack the nearest perceived enemy. If no enemy can be determined, then the arcane slayer will attack the nearest creature until a discernible enemy, or the source of the arcane effect, becomes visible. The arcane slayer’s rage lasts for a number of rounds equal to 3 + class level, or until the source of the arcane effect that triggered his rage is defeated.

Originally posted by Sysane:

I like the flavor behind the Vicious Strike ability, but not the mechanic. I suggest doing something along the lines of the following:

Disrupting Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane slayer who readies an action in order to disrupt the casting of a spell, or the manifesting of a power, is treated as if he had dealt double the damage he actually rolled on a successful hit for the purposes of Concentration checks made by his opponent.

Originally posted by Sysane:

Bengel,

Here are some other suggestions I have. Take them for what their worth.

Instead of detect magic how about this ability:

Mage Sense (Su): An arcane slayer can sense the presence of arcane casters within 30 feet of himself, even if they are hidden by darkness or walls, but he cannot discern their exact location.

Rather than spell resistance try this for a 7th level ability:

Eldritch Bulwark (Ex): At 7th level and higher, an arcane slayer can withstand magical attacks with incredible endurance. If he makes a successful saving throw against an attack originating from an arcane source that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. A helpless arcane slayer does not gain the benefit of eldritch bulwark.

Lastly, here’s my suggestion for a 5th level ability:

Defiling Immunity (Su): Beginning at 5th level, the arcane slayer is immune to the effects of an arcane caster’s defiling radius.

Originally posted by Pennarin:

Sysane, your abilities are related to defilers and defiling, while Bengeldorn specifically said in the fluff that the class makes no difference between the types of wizard. Some of the modifiers for the abilities make a difference for defiling (see CONTROL RAGE CIRCUMSTANCE MODIFIERS), but the modifiers seem to come from defiling being a sure way to recognize arcane magic is being used; that doesn’t indicate to me that the arcane slayer hates defilers more than preservers, so abilities should not detect/affect only defilers while it should detect/affect all wizards.

Er, I’m not much clear, hope you understand.

Originally posted by Sysane:

[quote]Sysane, your abilities are related to defilers and defiling, while Bengeldorn specifically said in the fluff that the class makes no difference between the types of wizard. Some of the modifiers for the abilities make a difference for defiling (see CONTROL RAGE CIRCUMSTANCE MODIFIERS), but the modifiers seem to come from defiling being a sure way to recognize arcane magic is being used; that doesn’t indicate to me that the arcane slayer hates defilers more than preservers, so abilities should not detect/affect only defilers while it should detect/affect all wizards.

Er, I’m not much clear, hope you understand.[/quote]
Alright. In that case, the only ability out of the ones I suggested that would need to be changed would be sense defiler to sense wizard. The defiling immunity still fits due that that ALL wizards can potentially defile, not just full blown defilers.

As for the rage, I’m basing my suggested abilities on the notion that the acrane frenzy would replace Bengel’s old rage mechanic.

Originally posted by Pennarin:

[…] would replace Bengel’s the old rage mechanic.

Is that his new name now? Bengel the Old?!

He is wise enough…and being german anything he says in his native language will sound like hard-earned wisdom to our ears…

Originally posted by Sysane:

edit: double post

Originally posted by Sysane:

[quote]Is that his new name now? Bengel the Old?!

He is wise enough…and being german anything he says in his native language will sound like hard-earned wisdom to our ears…[/quote]
Thats what I get for posting when I should be working.

Originally posted by Sysane:

Hmmm…Bengel hasn’t been on lately. I was hoping to hear what he thought of my suggestions for his PrC.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Hmmm…Bengel hasn’t been on lately. I was hoping to hear what he thought of my suggestions for his PrC.

Sorry, I won’t be able to reply that much this week. I’m snowed under with work. Anyway, I’m trying to check the board once a day, but I expect being pretty tired (10h work and about 2h to 3h driving to and from work), that’s why it could be that I won’t answer immediatelly.

[quote]Is that his new name now? Bengel the Old?!

He is wise enough…and being german anything he says in his native language will sound like hard-earned wisdom to our ears…[/quote]
You know this is an intresting combination of words, if you translate the german Bengel into english.
By the way, dorn is a german word too, for those who care.
I don’t know. if I’m wise, but I agree, that try to see as many sides as possible, when it comes to discussions. Anyway, I’m feeling honored.

[quote]Instead of detect magic how about this ability:

Mage Sense (Su): An arcane slayer can sense the presence of arcane casters within 30 feet of himself, even if they are hidden by darkness or walls, but he cannot discern their exact location.

[/quote]
I choosed detect arcane, because this ability would also help an arcane slayer to identify, if an item is arcane or not. Otherwise, an arcane slayer would almost have no magic items, because he would almost never be sure, if he is going to brake his code of conduct. In addition, detect arcane would allow an arcane slayer to see fading auras, which would help him to hunt down wizards. All this together let me tend more to keeping detect arcane than changing it to mage sense. Although this ability is also very nice.

[quote]Rather than spell resistance try this for a 7th level ability:

Eldritch Bulwark (Ex): At 7th level and higher, an arcane slayer can withstand magical attacks with incredible endurance. If he makes a successful saving throw against an attack originating from an arcane source that normally deals half damage on a successful save, he instead takes no damage. A helpless arcane slayer does not gain the benefit of eldritch bulwark.

[/quote]
This is also a very intresting ability, comes somthing close to evasion’s mechanics. I would make it a call for the forum members. What would you prefer? SR or Edlritch Bulwark?

[quote]Lastly, here’s my suggestion for a 5th level ability:

Defiling Immunity (Su): Beginning at 5th level, the arcane slayer is immune to the effects of an arcane caster’s defiling radius.

[/quote]
Again, an intrestring ability. I guess, I’m going to take that, as controll rage is going to be merged with rage towards arcane (or arcane frenzy, see below).

I like the flavor behind the Vicious Strike ability, but not the mechanic. I suggest doing something along the lines of the following:[quote]Disrupting Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane slayer who readies an action in order to disrupt the casting of a spell, or the manifesting of a power, is treated as if he had dealt double the damage he actually rolled on a successful hit for the purposes of Concentration checks made by his opponent.

[/quote]
Vicious Strike, is an ability of the Complete Warrior’s occult slayer prestige class. I choosed to change the ability to work only against arcane spellcaster, because IMO, an arcane slayer must know, that his opponent is an arcane spellcaster to redie this action. I’m not sure, if I want the PrC being able to use its abilities towards other spellcasters and all manifesters too. I’m going to think over it, but as far as my position is now, I won’t change it (unless you have some more good reasons to change it).

[quote]What if you had two methods of entering Rage:

See someone defile, (i.e. see the actual defiling results of defiling) save or end up in a rage.

See someone cast arcane magic without defiling (preserver cast a spells, defiler near a tree of life, etc.), you may enter a rage if you choose by making a will save.[/quote]
Intresting idea, but this wouldn’t change the issue with a SK’s defilers and SK themselves. I guess differentiated modifiers would do the job as well, besides that I’m thinking of an automtic fail when being within a defiling radius. Would that be enough, or a good idea?

You should also clarify that the Slayer must recognize the magic as arcane magic, as DS3 allows wizards to disguise their spells using bluff. You could also potentially allow the Slayer to fail that sense motive roll (or rather take a 1 on the roll), sort of self-justification (“Oh that’s not magic, that was clearly psionics” or some such).

Well, as for the mechanics for recognizing arcane magic, the rules are within the DS3.5 document. I could add a sentence in brakets like:
(See DS 3.5, for Bluff and casting arcane spells.)

As for the failing the sense motive check on purpose, would IMO be against the code of conduct, although it isn’t explicitly written there. But allowing this just doesn’t feel right to me.

I know it all takes away from the flavor of overwhelming hatred for wizards, but it’s hard to make a class like that a playable one. Of course if you just want it to be an NPC class (or a PC one in a very tailored campaign), what you’ve got seems fine. I do agree that they seem likely to have short life-expectancy.

I agree, that playing this PrC wouldn’t be easy, but IMO the benefits towards arcane magic justify the hard role playing. In addition, I guess it could make a lot of fun playing a class like this.

[quote]The rage lasts until the arcane slayer defeated the arcane magic using creature, or until he succeeds his will save.

Also, this suggests that he can continue to make saves while raging in an attempt to regain control, but you don’t specify how often that would be.[/quote]
Well, the idea was once every round. Should I add it? Do you think, once every round is ok, or is it too often?

@all:I’m very happy that there are comming more and more comments and ideas, and I hope you keep posting your ideas and concerns. I’m trying to analyse each comment as good as possible. Although I’m not going to edit the class today, I’m going to make some changes as noted above within the next days (when I’m not that tired).

Originally posted by Sysane:

I choosed detect arcane, because this ability would also help an arcane slayer to identify, if an item is arcane or not. Otherwise, an arcane slayer would almost have no magic items, because he would almost never be sure, if he is going to brake his code of conduct. In addition, detect arcane would allow an arcane slayer to see fading auras, which would help him to hunt down wizards. All this together let me tend more to keeping detect arcane than changing it to mage sense. Although this ability is also very nice.

Thats a good point about the magic items. You could always keep the mage sense ability and add another that allows the slayer to detect whether an item is arcane or not. A weaker form of detect magic. This is an ability that I created for my Syphon PrC:

Sense Magic Item (Su): At 3rd level, a syphon can sense magic items at will. This ability functions exactly like the detect magic spell, except that it only senses magic on items the syphon touches for a full round.

Perhaps you could come with a mechanic similar to this that detects only arcane magic items.

Again, an intrestring ability. I guess, I’m going to take that, as controll rage is going to be merged with rage towards arcane (or arcane frenzy, see below).

Hmmm…you never commented on arcane frenzy

Vicious Strike, is an ability of the Complete Warrior’s occult slayer prestige class. I choosed to change the ability to work only against arcane spellcaster, because IMO, an arcane slayer must know, that his opponent is an arcane spellcaster to redie this action. I’m not sure, if I want the PrC being able to use its abilities towards other spellcasters and all manifesters too. I’m going to think over it, but as far as my position is now, I won’t change it (unless you have some more good reasons to change it).

I regonized the ability. My issue with it is that this ability along with the ability to smite is a little unbalanced. I think if it was either or that would be fine, but having both smite and vicious strike as part of the same PrC is not IMO.

[raddu (Robert Adducci)]

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

[quote]Thats a good point about the magic items. You could always keep the mage sense ability and add another that allows the slayer to detect whether an item is arcane or not. A weaker form of detect magic. This is an ability that I created for my Syphon PrC:

Perhaps you could come with a mechanic similar to this that detects only arcane magic items.[/quote]
I still think, one ability would be the better option, and detect arcane covers both of your suggested abilites.

Hmmm…you never commented on arcane frenzy

I know I did, but I guess in another tab, and before I copied it into my “ReplyAll”-thread, I must have closed it…I’m going to comment it again within the next days.

I regonized the ability. My issue with it is that this ability along with the ability to smite is a little unbalanced. I think if it was either or that would be fine, but having both smite and vicious strike as part of the same PrC is not IMO.

I will think about it.

Originally posted by Sysane:

I still think, one ability would be the better option, and detect arcane covers both of your suggested abilites.

I just feel that breaking them down to two different abilities, or even as one ability thats a weaker form of a full blown detect magic that can be done at will, has a bit more flavor. Thats just IMO

Originally posted by mystictheurge:

If you decide to go with Eldritch Bulwark you should also look at the text for the Mettle class ability. I don’t think it’s OGL, so I don’t know if you could use it verbatim. The hexblade, among others, gets it.

Essentially, it’s evasion for Will saves, only they clarify that it’s for any spell that offers a lesser effect on a successful will save. Eldritch Bulwark, as it’s written now, is only helpful against damaging spells, it does nothing against spells that bestow non-damaging effects.

Originally posted by Sysane:

[quote]If you decide to go with Eldritch Bulwark you should also look at the text for the Mettle class ability. I don’t think it’s OGL, so I don’t know if you could use it verbatim. The hexblade, among others, gets it.

Essentially, it’s evasion for Will saves, only they clarify that it’s for any spell that offers a lesser effect on a successful will save. Eldritch Bulwark, as it’s written now, is only helpful against damaging spells, it does nothing against spells that bestow non-damaging effects.[/quote]
Yes, I based the ability on a PrC from the complete devine that allowed the same exact thing but for Fort saves. Eldritch Bulwark works against all damaging arcane spells whether they are Fort, Will, or Ref based saves. To have in that it worked againts ALL arcane effects (damaging or not) seemed unbalanced. to me.

Originally posted by mystictheurge:

Yes, I based the ability on a PrC from the complete devine that allowed the same exact thing but for Fort saves. Eldritch Bulwark works against all damaging arcane spells whether they are Fort, Will, or Ref based saves. To have in that it worked againts ALL arcane effects (damaging or not) seemed unbalanced. to me.

I don’t think that it would be too unbalanced give a) the rarity of arcane magic on athas and b) the fact that it does nothing against non-arcane magic or psionics.

Also keep in mind that there aren’t a lot of will-half saves, most of them are already will-negates. But I do think it detracts from the flavor of the ability if you can avoid damage, but still get nauseated (or dazed or shaken or whatever) simply based on the spell.

Originally posted by Sysane:

[quote]I don’t think that it would be too unbalanced give a) the rarity of arcane magic on athas and b) the fact that it does nothing against non-arcane magic or psionics.

Also keep in mind that there aren’t a lot of will-half saves, most of them are already will-negates. But I do think it detracts from the flavor of the ability if you can avoid damage, but still get nauseated (or dazed or shaken or whatever) simply based on the spell.[/quote]
Well, I did limit to just arcane spells to balance out that the ability encompassed all save types and not just one. If others don’t find it to unbalanced, I could change it that bulwark affects ALL arcane spells, not just damaging effects.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Ok, I made some changes with this class. I renamed the rage towards arcane ability, and made some changes in the mechanics and wording. I hope, it helps to make things clearer.

In addition, I added the Sysan’s Defling Immunity idea, but with slightly changes.

I guess, I’m going to keep the Spell Resistance ability and do not take the Eldritch Bulwark ability. I share MysticTheurge’s POV, and IMHO Spell Resistance is much easier to handle (besides, Spell Resistance doesn’t work on all spells).

IMO, Detect Magic would do a good job, and splitting it into more abilities would make things more complicated. The only thing I consider, is to increase the ammount of times being able to use it per day.

As with the Smite Arcane and the Vicious Strike abilities, and don’t think it’s such a big deal, because the targets, those abilities would apply to, are limited, as is the ammount of times being able to use it combined.

@Sysane: Regarding for the comment on your arcane frenzy ability, I took some ideas for my ability (I hope you’ll notice which ones). In addition, Pennarin’s comment has reflected my thoughts very well, so I’m not going make the same comment as a full written one, but refering to him (if he don’t mind ).

Originally posted by Sysane:

I guess, I’m going to keep the Spell Resistance ability and do not take the Eldritch Bulwark ability. I share MysticTheurge’s POV, and IMHO Spell Resistance is much easier to handle (besides, Spell Resistance doesn’t work on all spells).

My only issue with spell resistance as part of a PrC (or at least this one) is that the amount of SR it gives is almost negligible due to how low it is. At 10th level of the PrC, it offers SR 20 for a character that would be level 16+ on average. Compare that to a drow that would have an SR 27 at the same level. Its only 7 points, but those 7 points are a big difference. The drow’s SR also scales with the character starting at 1st level. Bulwark would be useful past 10th level of the PrC due to it increasing as the characters saving throws improve. Furthermore, Bulwark doesn’t work against all spells, just the ones that already offer saving throws. SR gives you a chance to completely negate the effects of a good number of spells, and still have the chance to make a save if it gets thru it.

Anyway, I’ve been brainstorming an alternative mechanic for Eldritch Bulwark tied to the AS’s rage ability. This may be a bit unbalanced, but let me know what you think anyhow:

Eldritch Bulwark (Su): Starting at 7th level, an arcane slayer can shrug off the effects of magical attacks with inhuman endurance. While enraged, the arcane slayer benefits as if under the effects of a globe of minor invulnerability for the duration of his rage. Unlike globe of minor invulnerability, Eldritch Bulwark only benefits the arcane slayer and only against arcane spells and effects. At 10th level, the globe of minor invulnerability effect increases to that of a globe of invulnerability.

IMO, Detect Magic would do a good job, and splitting it into more abilities would make things more complicated. The only thing I consider, is to increase the ammount of times being able to use it per day.

I understand your thoughts behind this. I’m just thinking on a flavor standpoint. Having it as two abilities (One thats active all the time, and one as touch) makes it standout more IMO. However, I’m willing to concede on this ability at this point

As with the Smite Arcane and the Vicious Strike abilities, and don’t think it’s such a big deal, because the targets, those abilities would apply to, are limited, as is the ammount of times being able to use it combined.

I urge you to reconsider due to balance issues. Smiting and vicious strike trample over each other since they’re both “increase damage vs creature X” abilities.

@Sysane: Regarding for the comment on your arcane frenzy ability, I took some ideas for my ability (I hope you’ll notice which ones). In addition, Pennarin’s comment has reflected my thoughts very well, so I’m not going make the same comment as a full written one, but refering to him (if he don’t mind ).

I like the ideas behind the rage mechanic, but they’re very quirky and kind of on the complex side as they currently are. I offered arcane frenzy as a streamlined alternative which kept the flavor (IMO anyway) that your trying to capture with the ability. I’m by no means saying what I’ve come up is the only way to do this, but I still feel that what you have needs a little more work in order prefect the mechanics behind that ability.

I really think you have the makings of a good PrC here and with some refinement, it could become a great one

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

My only issue with spell resistance as part of a PrC (or at least this one) is that the amount of SR it gives is almost negligible due to how low it is. At 10th level of the PrC, it offers SR 20 for a character that would be level 16+ on average. Compare that to a drow that would have an SR 28 at the same level. Its only 8 points, but those 8 points are a big difference. The drow’s SR also scaled with the character starting at 1st level. Bulwark would be useful past 10th level of the PrC due to it increasing as the characters saving throws improve. Furthermore, Bulwark doesn’t work against all spells, just the ones that already offer saving throws. SR gives you a chance to completely negate the effects of a good number of spells, and still have chance to make a save. Anyway, I’ve been brainstorming an alternative mechanic for Eldritch Bulwark tied to the AS’s rage ability. This may be a bit unbalanced, but let me know what you think anyhow: [quote]Eldritch Bulwark (Su): Starting at 7th level, an arcane slayer can shrug off the effects of magical attacks with inhuman endurance. While enraged, the arcane slayer benefits as if under the effects of a globe of minor invulnerability for the duration of his rage. Unlike globe of minor invulnerability, Eldritch Bulwark only benefits the arcane slayer and only against arcane spells and effects. At 10th level, the globe of minor invulnerability effect increases to that of a globe of invulnerability.

[/quote]
Well, this would only affect 3rd or 4th level spells (or lower). Besides that, it should be SP not SU. As much as I appriciate your attempts with the Eldritch Bulwark ability, I’m pretty much persist for an arcane SR ability right now. Although, I see your point with the scaling, I don’t want to make it a 1st level ability (My general guideline is: “Don’t grant more than three abilities in one class level!”). I see your point that, if there is going to be an arcane SR, it should be higher. Now I have two options doing that:

1. Increase the numbers (for example 10 to 20 and 20 to 30).
2. Keep the current numbers, but add the following to the arcane rage ability:

While raging, an arcane slayer’s arcane SR (see below) increases by 2 per level (an arcane slayer without arcane spell resistance has an effective arcane spell resistance of 0).

I urge you to reconsider due to balance issues. Smiting and vicious strike trample over each other since they’re both “increase damage vs creature X” abilities.

Ok, so your point is that I have to choose one of them. But which one? I like both pretty much.

I like the ideas behind the rage mechanic, but they’re very quirky and kind of on the complex side as they currently are. I offered arcane frenzy as a streamlined alternative which kept the flavor (IMO anyway) that your trying to capture with the ability. I’m by no means saying what I’ve come up is the only way to do this, but I still feel that what you have needs a little more work in order prefect the mechanics behind that ability.

Well, the automatic rage mechanic has been introduced within the CW and the PHBII. I have to admit, that the mechanics are little bit more complicated, but from POV they aren’t too complicated. On the other side, I wrote the part, that’s why I know what I mean; so my POV can’t be the base for that. Unfortunatelly, your offers didn’t complelty reflect my idea behind it as they way I wanted it to be. Maybe you could tell, what exactly makes this ability so complicated, so that I can see where the problem is.

I really think you have the makings of a good PrC here and with some refinement, it could become a great one

Originally posted by Sysane:

Well, this would only affect 3rd or 4th level spells (or lower). Besides that, it should be SP not SU. As much as I appriciate your attempts with the Eldritch Bulwark ability,

An ability that makes a character totally immune from spells of 1st thru 4th level is nothing to be taken lightly. The ability increases to ALL spell levels at 10th. I let it go at this point however

[quote]I’m pretty much persist for an arcane SR ability right now. Although, I see your point with the scaling, I don’t want to make it a 1st level ability (My general guideline is: “Don’t grant more than three abilities in one class level!”). I see your point that, if there is going to be an arcane SR, it should be higher. Now I have two options doing that:

1. Increase the numbers (for example 10 to 20 and 20 to 30).
2. Keep the current numbers, but add the following to the arcane rage ability:[/quote]
   That would work. You could also dump the arcane defense ability at first level and grant a straight up SR 10+2 per arcane slayer level. I’d also put a line in there about the AS is unable to voluntarily lower their SR in order to be effected by arcane magic (i.e. freindly or helpful buff spells).

You could have arcane defense start at 2nd level and increase the bonus at every even-level of the PrC (i.e. 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th).

Ok, so your point is that I have to choose one of them. But which one? I like both pretty much.

I’d keep smite and change vicious strike to something along the lines of the disrupting strike ability I proposed eariler.

Well, the automatic rage mechanic has been introduced within the CW and the PHBII. I have to admit, that the mechanics are little bit more complicated, but from POV they aren’t too complicated. On the other side, I wrote the part, that’s why I know what I mean; so my POV can’t be the base for that. Unfortunatelly, your offers didn’t complelty reflect my idea behind it as they way I wanted it to be. Maybe you could tell, what exactly makes this ability so complicated, so that I can see where the problem is.

Well, I’d total scrap the “opposed sense motive vs bluff” part of the rage mechanic. I’d just have it that anytime he is aware of arcane spellcasting the AS is at risk of entering into a fit of rage. I’d also refrain from reprint the whole entire rage mechanic of the barabarian and cut it down to “Arcane rage has the same benefits, penalties and restrictions as the barbarian’s rage class feature (See SRD), but unlike the barbarian’s rage…”. That right there would streamline it down quite a bit IMO.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

That would work. You could also dump the arcane defense ability at first level and grant a straight up SR 10+2 per arcane slayer level. I’d also put a line in there about the AS is unable to voluntarily lower their SR in order to be effected by arcane magic (i.e. freindly or helpful buff spells).

If I’m going to increase the arcane SR by levels, I’ll loose my 10th level ability. Although this seems to be the right way, but I have to figure out another 10th level ability then. Maybe something that increases the bonuses of arcane rage?

You could have arcane defense start at 2nd level and increase the bonus at every even-level of the PrC (i.e. 4th, 6th, 8th, and 10th).

I don’t know, two abilities that increase both at the same level each time appear pretty ugly IMO.

I’d keep smite and change vicious strike to something along the lines of the disrupting strike ability I proposed eariler.

What do you think about this?[quote]Disrupting Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane slayer has learned to dirsrupt arcane spellcaster casting their spells. An arcane spellcaster an arcane salyer threatens may not cast definsively (they fail automatically their Conenctration check to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensivley while being threatend by an arcane salyer. In addition, the damage dealt of an arcane slayer, who successfully hits an arcane spellcaster to disrupt his casting, is doubled for the purposes of the arcane spellcaster’s Concentration checks.[/quote]
I guess it needs to be rewritten, but I hope the idea is clear enough.

Well, I’d total scrap the “opposed sense motive vs bluff” part of the rage mechanic. I’d just have it that anytime he is aware of arcane spellcasting the AS is at risk of entering into a fit of rage. I’d also refrain from reprint the whole entire rage mechanic of the barabarian and cut it down to “Arcane rage has the same benefits, penalties and restrictions as the barbarian’s rage class feature (See SRD), but unlike the barbarian’s rage…”. That right there would streamline it down quite a bit IMO.

The “opposed sense motive vs. bluff”-part is just an example I added. This has nothing to do with the rage mechanics by itself.

How about that?
Arcane Rage (Ex): An arcane slayer, who discovers a source of arcane magic (such as a creature casting an arcane spell, or a magic item that creates arcane effects), must succeed a will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + circmustance modifiers, see Table 1-2:Rage Circumstance Modifiers), or he fall into a rage. Being target of an arcane spell, or being affected by the effects of defiling magic, an arcane slayer automatically fails his will save. In a rage, an arcane slayer gains a +4 bonus to strength, a +2 moral bonus on all saves, and his arcane spell resistance (see below) increases by 1 per arcane slayer level, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. While raging, an arcane slayer is limited in his use of skills and feats as descibed in the barbarian’s rage description (see p.25 of the PHB). Unlike the barbarian’s rage, an arcane slayer’s rage is not limited by a number of rounds, nor does he become fatigued if the rage ends. An arcane slayer’s rage ends, when the source of his rage is destroyed, or an arcane slayer can try to end his rage by succeeding another will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + numbers of round raged + circumstance modifiers), but the arcane slayer cannot aplly any moral bonuses to this save. An arcane slayer can try to end his rage once each round. While in an arcane rage, an arcane slayer’s attention is focused on the source of the rage, and he will try to destroy it by any means, thus a second source wouldn’t cause the arcane slayer to change his target, unless the arcane slayer tries and succeeds to end his rage towards the first source. If two or more sources would cause an arcane slayer, who’s attention isn’t focused to a source yet, to rage, the arcane slayer’s arcane rage will focus towards the source:

• that affected him with the effects of defiling magic.
• that targeted him with an arcane spell.
• that is at closest to him.

The effects of arcane rage stack with those from any other ability the character may have.

I assummed having another ability that would grand arcane Spell resistance by arcane slayer levels (10 + 2/level).

Originally posted by Sysane:

If I’m going to increase the arcane SR by levels, I’ll loose my 10th level ability. Although this seems to be the right way, but I have to figure out another 10th level ability then. Maybe something that increases the bonuses of arcane rage?

All I can think of is increasing the rage bonus to +6 Str and the bonus to saves to +3.

Speaking of the saving throws part of the rage. Have you thought about dumping the increased save for some other ability? The AS already has an increased save vs arcane magic from the arcane defense ability. Having another ability that increases the saves further seems kind of redundant. How about a arcane energy resistance instead? Something like energy resistance 10 at 1st level and then 15 at 10th level? Its just a thought

I don’t know, two abilities that increase both at the same level each time appear pretty ugly IMO.

You could off set the other ability at every odd level if your worried about that (i.e. 3rd, 5th, 7th, and 9th).

What do you think about this?I guess it needs to be rewritten, but I hope the idea is clear enough.

My only issue is the part about the wizard knowing the attack is coming. Wouldn’t that prompt the wizard to just take a 5’ step so he would no longer be threatened by the AS?

[quote]How about that?
Arcane Rage (Ex):…[/quote]
Its geeting there

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Instead of replying to your comments, I decided to post another write-up with the changes based on those comments.

ARCANE SLAYER
“All wizards must die!” — Craesek, dwarven arcane slayer.

Arcane Slayers blame wizards for destroying the land. They don’t distinguish between defilers and preservers, because even preservers are capable of defiling the earth. An arcane slayer’s goal is to cleanse athas from all arcane wielders, beings and knowledge. During their drive to wipe out arcane, they developed techniques to be become more efficient against arcane magic and to protect themselves.
Arcane slayer can come from any class but wizards. Every arcane slayer has experienced the destruction of defiling and the result was pure rage and hatred against wizards.
Arcane slayer devoted their lives to make athas free from wizards. Therefore they adventure to find and kill as many wizards as possible. Although they know that the sorcerer monarchs are the greatest arcane beings and capable of the most destruction, they know opposing one them will most likely end their own death.

Hit Die: d8

REQUIREMENTS
To qualify to become an arcane slayer a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Base Attack Bonus: +5.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 4 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks, Sense Motive 2 ranks
Spells: May not be able to cast arcane spells.
Special: Must have suffered a serious personal loss by the consequence of defiling magic.

CLASS SKILLS
The arcane slayer’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level: 4 + Int modifer

CLASS FEATURES
All of the following are class features of the arcane slayer prestige class.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Arcane slayers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and all armor and shield.
Code of Conduct: An arcane slayer’s code of conduct permits him to cast arcane spells, or to use any arcane magic item or weapon. If an arcane slayer isn’t certain, wether a magic item is not made by arcane magic, he won’t wear, use or hold it. An arcane slayer, who breaks his code of conduct, becomes an ex-arcane slayer and looses all his extraordinary and supernatural class features of the arcane slayer class. In addition, an arcane slayer cannot willingly ignore seeing another being using arcane magic, or willingly be affected by arcane magic.
Arcane Rage (Ex): An arcane slayer, who discovers a source of arcane magic (such as a creature casting an arcane spell, or a magic item that creates arcane effects), must succeed a will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + circmustance modifiers, see Table 1-2:Rage Circumstance Modifiers), or he falls into a rage. Being target of an arcane spell, or being affected by the effects of defiling magic, an arcane slayer automatically fails his will save. In a rage, an arcane slayer gains a +4 bonus to strength, a +2 moral bonus on all saves, and his arcane spell resistance (see arcane defense) increases by 1 per arcane slayer level, but he takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class. While raging, an arcane slayer is limited in his use of skills and feats as descibed in the barbarian’s rage description (see p.25 of the PHB). Unlike the barbarian’s rage, an arcane slayer’s rage is not limited by a number of rounds, nor does he become fatigued if the rage ends. An arcane slayer’s rage ends, when the source of his rage is destroyed, or an arcane slayer can try to end his rage by succeeding another will save (DC = 15 + arcane slayer level + numbers of rounds raged + circumstance modifiers), but the arcane slayer cannot apply any moral bonuses to this save. An arcane slayer can try to end his rage once each round. While in an arcane rage, an arcane slayer’s attention is focused on the source of the rage, and he will try to destroy it by any means, thus a second source wouldn’t cause the arcane slayer to change his target, unless the arcane slayer tries and succeeds to end his rage towards the first source. If two or more sources would cause an arcane slayer, who’s attention isn’t focused to a source yet, to rage, the arcane slayer’s arcane rage will focus towards the source:

• that affected him with the effects of defiling magic.
• that targeted him with an arcane spell.
• that is at closest to him.

The effects of arcane rage stack with those from any other ability the character may have.
Arcane Defense (Ex): An arcane slayer’s hatred towards arcane magic provides him +1 morale bonus per two arcane slayer levels on all saves that are made against an arcane source, and an arcane spell resistance of 10 + 2 per arcane slayer level. Arcane spell resistance applies only against arcane magic, and the arcane slayer cannot decide to lower this resistance.
Arcane Sense (Ex): At 2nd level an arcane slayer gains a +2 bonus Sense Motive checks that are made on opposed Bluff checks from beings that try to suppress the somatic components of their spells. In addition this bonus applies to Spellcraft checks to identify casted spells. Instead of idenfiing the spell, the arcane slayer can instead determine if the casted spell is arcane or not. These bonuses increase by +2 at 4th level and every two levels thereafter (+4 at 4th, +6 at 6th, +8 at 8th, and +10 at 10th level).
Disrupting Strike (Ex): At 2nd level, an arcane slayer has learned to dirsrupt arcane spellcaster casting their spells. If an arcane salyer deals damage to an arcane spellcaster after a successfull hit in melee, the arcane spellcaster cannot cast defensively for 1 round (they fail automatically their Conenctration check to do so). In addition, the damage dealt of an arcane slayer, who successfully hits an arcane spellcaster to disrupt his casting, is doubled for the purposes of the arcane spellcaster’s Concentration checks.
Multiple hits, with disrupting strike don’t stack.
Detect Arcane (Su): A 3rd level arcane slayer has learned to detect arcane magic and beings that use arcane magic. Once per day the arcane slayer can detect magic as the spell, but he only detects arcane magic. His caster level is equal to one third his arcane slayer level. At 6th and 9th level he can use this ability a number of times as indicated in the Table 1–1: The Arcane Slayer.
Smite Arcane (Su): At 4th level an arcane slayer can once per day smite arcane with one normal melee attack. He adds his Charisma bonus (if any) to his attack roll and deals 1 extra points of damage per arcane slayer level. At 8th level the arcane slayer can smite arcane one additional time per day.
Immunity to Defiling (Su): Beginning at 5th level, the arcane slayer is immune to the effects of defiling. Although, an aracne slayer is immune to the effects of defiling, his arcane rage ability would still automatically start, as it would usually do, if he wouldn’t be immune to the effects.
Greater Arcane Rage (Ex): At 10th level the arcane slayer’s bonus to strength during his rage increases to +6, his moral bonuses on his saves increase to +3, and his arcane spell resistance increases by 2 per arcane slayer level (instead of by 1 per arcane slayer level). The penalty to AC remains at -2.

TABLE 1–1: THE ARCANE SLAYER
LevelBABFortRefWillSpecial<br />1st+1+0+0+2Arcane defense, arcane rage, code of conduct<br />2nd+2+0+0+3Arcane sense +2, disrupting strike<br />3rd+3+1+1+3Detect arcane (1/day)<br />4th+4+1+1+4Arcane sense +4, smite arcane (1/day)<br />5th+5+1+1+4Immunity to defiling<br />6th+6+2+2+5Arcane sense +6, detect arcane (2/day)<br />7th+7+2+2+5—<br />8th+8+2+2+6Arcane sense +8, smite arcane (2/day)<br />9th+9+3+3+6Detect arcane (3/day)<br />10th+10+3+3+7Arcane sense +10, greater arcane rage
TABLE 1–2: CONTROL RAGE CIRCUMSTANCE MODIFIERS
CircumstanceWill Save DC modifier*<br />The arcane slayer …<br /> knows that someone can use arcane magic+0<br /> knows that someone has defiled+2<br /> sees someone using arcane magic+5 / +2**<br /> sees someone defiling+10 / +5 <br /><br /> These modifiers don’t stack.<br />* The modifier after the slash is added for every time this event happens during an encounter.
EX-ARCANE SLAYERS
Arcane Slayers who willingly break their Code of Conduct become Ex-arcane slayers and loose all their extraordinary and supernatural class features and cannot take anymore levels as arcane slayer. An arcane slayer who takes levels in a class that would give him the ability to cast arcane spells also breaks his Code of Conduct, thus becomes an ex-arcane slayer.

Originally posted by Sysane:

Looks like the PrC is coming together. With a little more refinement you should be all set to put this puppy to rest

Originally posted by kalthandrix:

I knw i have been quite, but I think this is coming together nicely B.

Originally posted by bengeldorn:

Ok. I guess, if nothing else is going to be suggested, I’m going to send it to Kalthandrix tomorrow.

Thanks, for all the help.