Dark Sun is officially returning in 2027 as the centerpiece of D&D’s Season of Survival, bringing new sourcebooks, a full Psion class, and the game’s first mature-rated campaign setting. The announcement suggests Wizards of the Coast is embracing Athas’ defining themes and brutal tone while giving longtime fans a substantial new edition to explore.
Ok, lot of what you state is true. However, the biggest thing Wizards, Influencers, etc. miss in their conversations is the controversial history. To me is a core pillar, the Cleansing Wars. This is keystone of history for why Athas is the way it is and why the current status is. Wizard’s 4th ed of Athas totally bypassed this. The Cleansing Wars is the mature content overshadowed by the advertised violence/nudity/stuff.
The Cleansing Wars we all know here (or assumed so) is the mature content of racism, ethnic cleansing, genocidal warmongering, etc. that setup behind why these wars occurred, why the ecosystem fell, why magic is hated, why the political systems developed, why each Champion had a genocidal title, etc. and so on.
This is the area I have concerns with the sanitization effect that WotC may invoke and repeat from 4th Ed.
Will this be covered or no in 5.5 E?
IIRC, didn’t 4e talk about the Cleansing Wars?
(Checked; yes, but they didn’t detail it)
For me, the thing about the Cleansing Wars is that there are probably less than a score of people who actually remember them, and it’s very unlikely that you’ll have much time to talk to them about it. While it’s common knowledge among players who read the books, most people don’t know that the elves were almost exterminated or that there used to be Wemics. The genocides were so far in the past that not even the bones can tell you things.
To me, it’s not a core part of the setting, because it’s so far in the past that no one knows it except by its invisible (to them) impact, which is just how the world is.
Cautious optimism is putting it mildly. After WoTC burnt the long-time Planescape and Spelljammer fandoms, it’s safe to say that anybody with above a room temp IQ already assumes this “rebirth” will be a letdown and is operating on that assumption until proven otherwise. All signs are already pointing to a let down, however. The art already brings entirely too much skepticism to the dance. Metal everywhere, beholder eye tyrant, biomechanical cyborgs, futuristic grand-scale city states…all of it points to WoTC yet again going wildly off course to defile another beloved setting. Unless the art departs drastically from the book material, I am gearing up for the death rattle of whatever is left of wotc’s credibility with dark Sun fandoms
I only saw them mention ages like the Blue, Green, and Red ages. They only mentioned wars during the Red ages.
For the main core of game play, the Cleansing Wars has no impact. It’s for lore buffs. However, people want to know the tone of the campaign. Why are we here today? What do you mean I cannot play a gnome? Some campaigns deep dive into history, right the back lore of something, the Cleansing Wars and its impacts plays into these things.
But every DM can/will change to make it fit. My own DS campaign is twisted beyond the official lore with different components.
But since WotC holds the official lore, I’d rather they stay true to its origins. 4th Ed didn’t do that for items of controversy. They kept slavery, but dropped the other portions and titles.
But if WotC follows the 4th Ed choices, as the DM - I’m make sure to crusade their short comings on the history into my game.
Yeah. The Cleansing Wars weren’t mentioned or even hinted at in the original boxed set.
You do make a valid point that the original box set doesn’t. Agreed. However, in the developed history from Troy Denning’s books and other supplements consider canon do.
The groups here at Athas.org continued the tradition of using these source materials to develop more content. Dregoth Ascending is a prime example.
Which titles? I did a quick scan, and Tectuktitlay is still Father of Life, Abalach-Re is still Grand Vizier, Androponis is still Dictator.
These titles associated to what they did or responsible for
Sacha of Arala — “Curse of the Kobolds”
Kalak — not a true champion.
Dregoth — “Ravager of Giants”
Myron of Yorum — “Troll Scorcher”
Hamanu (Manu of Deche) — “Troll Scorcher”
Abalach‑Re (Uyness of Waverly) — “Orge-Naught”
Sielba — “Destroyer of Pterrans”
Andropinis (Albeorn of Dunswich) — “Slayer of Elves”
Tectuktitlay — “Wemic Annihilator"
Wyan of Bodach — “Slayer of the Pixies”
Keltis (Kurn) — “Lizard Man Executioner”
Borys of Ebe — “Butcher of Dwarves”
Daskinor — “Goblin-Death"
Kalidnay - ?
I thought Abalach-Re was against the Orcs, and Kalak was against the Ogres?
But, yeah, they left those out, largely because there’s almost no details about the Cleansing Wars… the most given in the 4e books is a “Secret History of Athas” sidebar on page 208.
In Verdant Passage and other Troy Denning books remark that Kalak was not an original champion.
Now, that is enlightening. That P. 208 on 4E DS Campaign Setting, does mention Cleansing Wars and called them genocidal. Nice catch Library. I stand corrected. With that I’ll give back a little credit and backbone to WotC. Reason why a little - this should have been upfront on P. 4 or 16. Not buried.
I hope they improve on their actions. Currently, their approach is still very like 4 ED. Let’s not mention it upfront.
Why, though? Why should it be extremely early in the text? On page 4, they’re talking about tyrants and slavery. Page 16 might have gotten that sidebar, sure, but, it’s still secret history.
It is, as you’ve even allowed, largely irrelevant to most people in the world. Yes, it’s part of the history and lore, but it’s deep history… something only a few people know, and most PC will be ignorant about until they’re hitting epic levels, unless the DM makes a point to put it in their face.
It’s like knowing details of the fall of the Sumerian Empire… yes, it likely impacts our world today in ways we don’t think of, but it’s far less important than the also-distant founding of the United States.
Ah, but that’s where we disagree.
Three viewpoints -
History is a wicked piece. Missing a piece, you may get a warped sense of the present. This history is significant as it gives the why of things are the way they are.
Why have it upfront - makes sense, organization. What they did with “Secret History” is likely having part of the “a” words in an appendix of a dictionary. People always complain about clear communication - at work, at home, etc. “Fake Media”. Hidden/fine print text in a contract. Why hide it?
How much today do people, politicians, etc. hide history, twist history, etc. to state their story. They can say a “truth” from a certain point of view. Then when someone points out an issue, but the truth is in the document - just hidden/buried/cloaked.
I still think you’re overstating it; the two books of Dark Sun that 4e produced were a precis, at best, of the entire lore. The Cleansing Wars were a hundred human generations in the past; even for the dwarves, they’re 40 or more generations removed… you will not have met someone who met someone who met someone who met someone who lived through them, even if you have met the oldest dwarf who met the oldest dwarf.
The 4e books are less than 400 pages, total, to describe a world, its people, its fauna, as well as the game terms that define them. They didn’t hide the information, they just didn’t center it. They didn’t remove the titles, they just didn’t mention them (mostly; Borys is still called the “Butcher”). Arguably, the sidebar on page 208 could have been on 16… but one could also argue that the deep and secret history more properly belongs in the DM section from pages 194-208, rather than in the “Everyone knows this” section. Because the macro MIGHT break if DMs don’t know it, but players and PCs can be dumb as a box of rocks and still keep going. They’re supposed to have questions about how all this works.
The information is still around for those who care to look. It’s just not laid out as neatly as it is in the second boxed set… which is almost as long, but with a much reduced monster section.
I don’t think I’m overstating anything — my point is strictly about placement and not hiding conten, not quantity.
Moving the Cleansing Wars from page 208 to page 16 doesn’t add pages, doesn’t expand the lore, and doesn’t change the 400‑page limit. It’s the same text, just organized where people will actually see it without digging through the back of the book.
That’s all I’m saying.
The 4E books had limited space, agreed. They didn’t have complete information as we did with multiple supplements in 2E, but the secret history is good enough for context and limited page number.
But placement still matters. When the foundational “why” of the world is tucked into the last 15 pages, it’s easy for DMs to form a macro picture that looks more like “generic desert tyranny” than “post‑genocidal magical wasteland ruled by former Champions.”
I’m not arguing for more lore or front‑loading secret history into the player section. I’m arguing that the load‑bearing structural history shouldn’t be buried so deep that only people who read cover to cover may, just may see it.
Same number of pages. Same amount of lore. Just better placement. And not buried.
Just interjecting here.
Have you viewed the stuff from the magazines? There’s a lot of stuff in there (Dragon; maybe Dungeon was still active?).
For instance, there were at least two articles about spirits of the land (one of them being some of the poor ones enslaved by Lalali-Puy).
The athas.org home page has a link to a magazine article directory.
That’s all I’m adding.
I wish there was more lore from 4e, like more info on the Dawn War that wiped out the gods.
You are literally arguing for front-loading secret history into the player section. “Take the secret history out of the DM section on page 208 and put it in the history section of page 16” is entirely front-loading secret history into the player section.
Ah, I love a good discussion.
On the Campaign Setting book: while we can infer that Section 6 is aimed more at DMs, it never actually says “DMs only” or “players stop here.” There’s no disclaimer anywhere that divides the book into player‑facing vs. DM‑facing material. Section 1 isn’t labeled “players only,” and Section 6 isn’t labeled “DM only.” It’s a unified book.
So no — nothing in the text makes that history “secret” or restricted. It’s just placed in the back.
My point has always been about organization, not secrecy. I prefer a clean book where the history sits together instead of being scattered or buried. You seem to love it as they designed it. Thumbs up.
However, I like my critique of the book. That’s the fun of discussing Dark Sun.
Yes, I have the full collection of Dragon, Dungeon, and RPGA Mag - Polyhedron. Lots of good information of Dark Sun. One of my favorites is the Last Troll adventure. Loved it if they tied more with templars of Hamanu and him looking for redemption or something.