Still working on how to parse quotes. Every forum is different.
On StP Erudite, I now have a phenomenal character idea that I will write out some fiction for, thanks to your heretic statement!
For the psyref, since meta-mastery grants bonus feats as written, and psyref allows feat choices to be changed, it looked something like this: 3rd level feat - Chain Power; level 16 (ACere 10) meta-mastery class feature grants Chain Spell (B); psyref Chain Power to Psionic Meditation. Essentially, getting the metamagic version ‘free’ when the class feature is gained, and swapping the original choice to something without an equivalent, or another feat altogether. The Innate Spell garbage gained in this way circumvents the need for Silent/Still because there is no Psionic equivalent; it should be excluded, I think.
I’m not sure what the wording should be at the moment (I’ll read through some texts later), but language around ‘if a metamagic feat you have has a direct metapsionic counterpart (or vice versa), you are considered to have both as long as you have the feat. If there is no direct counterpart, this class feature grants no additional benefit. The benefits of this class feature apply if you later gain a qualifying metamagic or metapsionic feat. Apply the text of the respective feat when adjudicating costs - metapsionic to powers, and metamagic to spells.’
That way the class feature isn’t providing bonus feats, just allows you to use feats in the way they are intended.
Spellbook Tattoo epic spell is in Legends of Athas, pgs. 47-48.
Minor editing, the page linked for Evolved Paragon says it does increase Manifester and Caster level, though the syntax implies a missing ‘not’. In that case, the ML and CL are off on the build by 3.
I will build another based on your UM cerebremancer version. I like that one because it can go epic as a 10-level PrC. Have you thought about what it’s epic progression should look like?
I’ll go over those things you mentioned and put in the fixes.
I personally do not use epic progression of PrCs, but if you did they would likely be as crappy as epic progression PrCs published by WotC.
The problem with the epic versions of non-epic PrCs is that is that they don’t scale well into epic, meaning in most cases that the epic versions are horrifically gimped. See the epic mystic theurge for an example of that. I think WotC did it as an afterthought and it was a mistake.
I’ll see if the ultimate magus ever got an epic progression.
EDIT: Fixed Athasian Cerebremancer exploit. Corrected omission in Evolved Paragon.
I had a look at Legends of Athas. Despite having read LoA from front to back multiple times, I appear to have suppressed the memory of the Spellbook Tattoo epic spell from the trauma of it. Let’s take a look.
Reveal seed. No factors that would actually enable something like a spellbook tattoo. Then virtual spell mastery feat which will enable every spell mastery tactic under the sun, including forms of spontaneous spellcasting.
These unintended consequences are why I start at the beginning and make a build that exposes problems. This basically replicates the SM Signature Spells ability and then some, as you could choose 11 9th level spells, pair them with metamagic and arcane spellsurge using your AB Improved Spell Capacity, and burn through your slots in a few rounds. Multispell multiple times would also help.
You may rule that arcane spellsurge doesn’t exist on Athas, but I think it should.
Haha. I won’t say no to anything but all I ask is that the campaign world be internally consistent. That means that what is good for the goose is good for the gander.
That makes me want to nerf AB Spell Capacity. It’s got my noggin’ joggin’. I’ll nerf it but do a nice guy nerf.
Advanced being spell capacity [Advanced Being] Prerequisites: Advanced being, Improved Spell Capacity [Epic] Benefit: Instead of using the table for spell slots above 9 that appears in the Improved Spell Capacity feat, the character uses the table that appears here. In addition, every Improved Spell Capacity feat that the character has (and takes in the future) is matched with an additional virtual Improved Spell capacity feat, giving the character the ability to cast spells two levels higher than the highest-level spell the character can already cast instead of one. Effectively, each Improved Spell Capacity feat that the character has is counted twice.
I think that does it. Now the AB at least has to think about what it is doing.
EDIT: I depreciated innate power for now. Innate Spell I have changed slightly.
Innate Spell [General]
You have mastered a spell so thoroughly you can now cast it as a spell-like ability.
Prerequisite: Quicken Spell. Silent Spell. Still Spell.
Benefit: Choose any spell you can cast. You can now cast this spell at will as a spell-like ability once per round. One spell slot eight levels higher than the innate spell is permanently used to power it.
When taking this feat, you may alter the innate spell with the use of metamagic feats, but you must pay the cost of applying metamagic by higher spell slots (the level of the spell + any metamagic feats + a spell slot eight levels higher). No metamagic reducers apply to this feat.
As well, you must have any focus required by the spell in order to use it as a spell-like ability, and if the innate spell has a costly material component, you must expend an item worth 50 times that cost as a focus when first taking this feat. When taking this feat, you may alter the innate spell with the use of metamagic feats. Since an innate spell is a spell-like ability and not an actual spell, a cleric cannot lose it to spontaneously cast a cure or inflict spell. As well, spellcasters who become unable to cast spells of the level of the spell slot used to power the innate spell become unable to use the spell-like ability.
No spell with an XP cost, even a variable XP cost (such as simulacrum or miracle ) may be an innate spell.
Special: You can choose this feat more than once, selecting another spell and paying the spell slot, focus, and material components costs each time. Note: This feat supersedes the version of the feat in Complete Arcane and the explanation in the 3.5e Main FAQ.
EDIT 2: Updated the salient feats PDF. Updated Master of the Way PDF. New capstone.
Acknowledged Master of the Way
At 5th level you are acknowledged as a true master of the way. You receive a +5 bonus to diplomacy, intimidate and sense motive checks against manifesters or creatures with the psionic subtype.
I threw in sense motive because masters of the way may come up against each other!
I’m not sure how I feel about this, as there are multiple, useful spells of lesser power and level that have an XP cost that would still have to be paid rack time, like alter fortune. Having to pay the XP for each use makes sense, and it was why I chose Mystical Reservoir. A 35th level character could get 1’free’ wish per day. Anything else requires murdering people or a delay in the next level of power; a good trade off.
I think the real offenders here were AB Improved Spell Capacity and Innate Spell via meta-mastery. Fixing meta-mastery to include ‘you must still meet the prerequisites for a feat’ or ‘choose a metamagic/metapsionic feat from the following list’ is a different way of accomplishing the intent.
Silent, Still, Quicken, Innate, Improved Spell Capacity (10th) [Epic], Mystical Reservoir [Salient] and four (nerfed) AB Improved Spell Capacity [Salient] is a stiff investment for one ‘free’ wish per day (feat selection doable by 34th, 5,000xp MRes at 35th). Maybe I underestimate the power of wish, but I would have had epic spells and powers for 15 levels by then.
Part of the fun of negating xp costs with orbs of energy storing, or mystical reservoir, or similar mechanics are ‘what costs can/should be included?’ erudite has an xp cost relating to power learning, but unrelated to crafting, but is like casting and crafting and fits thematically within Athas in my opinion. Especially since there are various learning institutions.
"Where the innate spell has a variable XP cost (such as miracle or wish), you must pay at least the minimum cost, which must be a number above 0 XP, specified in the description of the spell, or higher, depending on the variable. For example, miracle has variable XP cost of 0 XP and 5000 XP. An innate spell miracle costs 5000 XP regardless of the effects produced.
I will have to think of more elegant wording. But I think it accomplishes what needs to happen here. I am OK with shadow evocation and shadow conjuration being innate spells, and I expect that the shadow king has them. Shutting down at will spells from the divine list seems pretty important though.
I was also thinking about this one. The original was too much, I think this is too little for a capstone. The kickass part of this class is full Manifester levels, and the mastered powers, as well as the prestige of being a master (that has influence on others in psionic society). Students would seek out masters of these powers to learn from. A thesis in a power over a focus on a discipline.
A capstone (at 16th, earliest level) should be amazing, as you intended.
Keep the 1 mastered power per level, telepathy at 1st, efficiency at 2nd and 4th, fortification at 3rd (+1).
EDIT: I’d make the fortification aspect part of the mastered power, not separate. A master of the way can choose the same power twice, increasing it to +2, but that would gimp the reach of the new capstone proposal.
Consider the acknowledge master of the way at 1st, with a +1 per level in the PrC, gaining renown as s/he masters more power.
As a capstone, I’d like to see the effects of the Ardent’s Dominant Ideal applicable only to Mastered Powers.
I have just realised that minor spells costs in Mystical Reservoir opens up a can of worms, especially with innate spell. Since it is not an important part of Mystical Reservior, I think it can be removed with no issue. Another advantage of removing minor spell costs is that this salient feat is now a lot less convoluted.
Mystical Reservoir [Advanced Being]
As an advanced being your well of power is deep indeed. You can draw on this well of power to fuel spells, powers, and magical item creation.
Prerequisites: Advanced being
Benefit: An XP cushion of 150XP per character level per day to be used for spellcasting or psionic manifesting costs, whether epic or non-epic. The mystical reservoir allows for item creation equal to 150XP per character level per month, with no free item creation.
Honestly, MotW is powerful enough that I was thinking about dropping telepathy. I am not sure what you are getting at with fortification. It affects all the mastered powers. Are you saying that fortification should select for a mastered power, and this should happen twice, potentially making a +4 bonus to a particular power?
Mastered powers already does this. Or are you referring to this? “You do not need to expend your psionic focus when applying metapsionic feats to powers you manifest from your chosen primary mantle”. If this is it, I can work with that but I can’t offer any further PP reduction such as that mentioned in Dominant Ideal.
Instead of capstoning it, I will introduce it at level one, scaling at the same time as the Mastered Powers.
Here’s how I see the capstone for MotW. Its not weak. Its just like “hey, here is this guy, he’s been around for a while and he can do all this powerful stuff. Now he’s finally got the recognition he deserves”, and that’s why he gets it at 5th level rather than scaling from level one. The capstone isn’t the powerful stuff itself, but the culmination of all the other stuff.
I’ll have to think about this some more. Evolved Paragon’s Epic Bonus Feats make this obsolete because other Salient Feats are better choices. For every 10 levels of EP, I get 4 Salients, 8 Epics, and 4 Psi Enchantments (levels and bonus).
I’d spend my Epics on Spell Capacity because there aren’t better choices after a while.
Can we link AB Improved Spell Capacity to an expanded caster level progression? That way taking Practiced Manifester/Spellcaster, Epic versions, and the salient essence Integration feats a worthwhile pursuit. Prior, I could get ML and CL boosts without those investments for a while.
So, Limited by INT bonus as in the table, and a caster progression that starts at base caster level 21 for 10th, 23rd for 11th, etc.
I have made changes to innate spell. Changes are in bold.
Innate Spell [General]
You have mastered a spell so thoroughly you can now cast it as a spell-like ability.
Prerequisite: Quicken Spell. Silent Spell. Still Spell.
Benefit:Choose any spell you can cast with a casting time of 1 standard action or less. You can now cast this spell at will as a spell-like ability once per round. One spell slot eight levels higher than the innate spell is permanently used to power it.
When taking this feat, you may alter the innate spell with the use of metamagic feats, but you must pay the cost of applying metamagic by higher spell slots (the level of the spell + any metamagic feats + a spell slot eight levels higher). No metamagic reducers apply to this feat.
As well, you must have any focus required by the spell in order to use it as a spell-like ability, and if the innate spell has a costly material component, you must expend an item worth 50 times that cost as a focus when first taking this feat. When taking this feat, you may alter the innate spell with the use of metamagic feats. Since an innate spell is a spell-like ability and not an actual spell, a cleric cannot lose it to spontaneously cast a cure or inflict spell. As well, spellcasters who become unable to cast spells of the level of the spell slot used to power the innate spell become unable to use the spell-like ability.
Where the innate spell has a variable XP cost (such as miracle or wish ), you must pay at least the minimum cost, which must be a number above 0 XP, specified in the description of the spell, or more if the variable is higher. For example, miracle has variable XP cost of 0 XP and 5000 XP. An innate spell miracle costs 5000 XP regardless of the effects produced.
Special: You can choose this feat more than once, selecting another spell and paying the spell slot, focus, and material components costs each time. Note: This feat supersedes the version of the feat in Complete Arcane and the explanation in the 3.5e Main FAQ.
Really? You would give up the table for AB Improved Spell Capacity for the regular table from Improved Spell Capacity?
Its actually good that you are stumped. If there was a definite optimal choice, then there is only one choice. If you want those juicy EP benefits, then you will have to suffer the caster/manifester level loss and pick up the epic practiced spellcaster/manifester feats. EP is designed to keep the AB from picking up another spellcasting or manifesting class.
That is one way of handling it. But again, it frees up resources that are plentiful by design, but should be hard choices to make nonetheless.
Now that AB Improved Spell Capacity isn’t the optimal choice in every scenario, some ABs will have, it others will not - at least in the earlier levels. I prefer to keep it as it is right now.
Salient feats are now clarified.
Acquiring Salient Feats
A creature with the advanced being trait receives the Advanced Being Apotheosis salient feat at 19 HD automatically and may select an additional salient feat for every 3 HD after that, given retroactively, at 22 HD, 25 HD, 28 HD, 31 HD, 34 HD and so on. Only through increasing character level may an advanced being gain more salient feats. The only exception to this is that an additional advanced being salient feat can be gained at every 10th level of the Evolved Paragon prestige class.
New Trait
Advanced Being
There are no gods on Athas or the planes surrounding Athas. You are an advanced being, the most puissant creature evolved on Athas or the planes.
Benefit: You get the Advanced Being Apotheosis salient feat at 19 HD retroactively. You can take the salient feats exclusive to advanced beings.
Certainly not the original. One Salient feat for a few dozen spells and spell levels up to 20ish is a low, low cost. One Salient feat for two levels, plus an additional Spell, plus bonus spells is still a pretty good deal (11th and 12th). Am I right in only the Salient feat offers bonus spells per INT and the 1 additional spell per level?
So, Improved Spell Capacity (10th) [Epic] and AB Improved Spell Capacity [Salient] would give 1 slot each of 10th, 11th, and 12th level. A caster with 34-35 Intelligence (+12 modifier) would receive 2 bonus spells for each 10th, 11th, and 12th.
Sorry, sometimes, I have to write things out as for a toddler to make sure I get them.
Let me see. You’ve got ISC X1 which is doubled thanks to AB-ISC. That nets you 10th and 11th level slots. Thanks to being an advanced being, you get 1 spell slot automatically of each level of spells that you can cast above 10th. That means you have 1+ 2 for 10th and 11th level spells both. You don’t have access to 12th level spells at all. If you take the ISC feat again, you will have access of up to 13th level spells, assuming that you have a sufficient ability score.
EDIT: I think I need to change the name of AB-ISC. Its just confusing.
EDIT 2: Going to change the name to Higher Order Spellcasting.
