HELP! I need help to fix character stats!

Rules 3rd Edition D&D or Pathfinder
#1

Hi there,

Please help me fix this character stats! I know I have made some mistakes but I can’t figure out where they are for sure. Here you go:

Lord Rethor of Tyr - Human Blight
Male Stage III Avangion Champion of Rajaat Wizard (Preserver) 3 / Telepath 3 / Cerebremancer 6 / Epic Cerebremancer 8 / Avangion 3; ECL 31
CN Medium aberration (augmented humanoid (human), psionic)
Age: 51
Height: 5ft 10in Weight: 250lbs Complexion: Golden
Eyes: Gold Hair: None

Abil. Score Abil. Mod. Temp. Score Temp. Mod
Str: 16 +3
Dex: 12 +1
Con: 16 +3
Int: 23 +6
Wis: 14 +2
Cha: 17 +3

AC: 21 (+1 Dex, +2 deflection bonus, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, Bracers of armor +2, ring of protection + 4)
HP: 261 (23d8 HD; +8 hp Psionic Body); regeneration 10; DR 10/epic and 5/–
Immune disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, polymorphing, petrification
Fire resist 30 (Scorcher)
PR 32, SR 32

Saving Throws: Total: BS: Abil. Mod. Misc. Mod.
Fortitude +12 +7 +3
Reflex +10 +7 +1
Will +18 +16 +2

Melee: +14/+9/+4 (+11/+6/+1 base, +3 str)
Range: +12/+7/+2 (+11/+6/+1 base, +1 dex)
Attk: +20/+20/+15/+10/+7 (1d8+9+1d6 cold dmg, 2x crit +1d10 cold dmg, Scorcher +6 speed keen icy burst bane longsword)
Attk: +13/+8/+3 (1d4+3/1d4+3, 1d6+3/1d6+3, 2x crit., Quarterstaff)
Attk: +13/+8/+3 (1d4+3, 2x crit., Steel Dagger)
Space 5 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Base Attk +11/+6/+1; Init: +1 Senses: Darkvision 60 feet, discern lies, detect chaos/evil/good/law
Speed: 30 ft, fly 60 ft. (good)

Skill Name: SM Ranks Abil. Mod. Misc. Mod. (Points: 8)
Knowledge (Arcana) +31 25 +6
Knowledge (Psionics) +31 25 +6
Knowledge (the Planes) +21 13 +6
Literacy (Common) +4 4 +0
Disguise +7 4 +3
Spellcraft +31 25 +6 +2 (Synergy)
Bluff +9 6 +3
Concentration +28 25 +3
Decipher Script +14 8 +6
Psicraft +31 25 +6
Use Psionic Device +10 7 +3
Autohypnosis +17 15 +2
Sense Motive +6 4 +2
Gather Information +7 4 +3
Feats: Mind over Body, Scribe Scroll (bonus class feat), Psionic Body [Psionic] (bonus racial feat), Quicken Spell [Metamagic], Silent Spell [Metamagic], Psionic Weapon [Psionic], Greater Psionic Weapon [Psionic] (+4d6 to melee Attk), Psionic Meditation [Psionic], Craft Universal Item, Epic Spellcasting,
SA: genocidal focus (Human sub-type; +4 additional enhancement bonus, +4d6 damage, crit. Fort Save DC 27 or be destroyed turned to dust with no immunity to death magic or critical hits), Signature Spells
SQ: immortality, energy storing, avangion magic, defiling immunity, psionic enchantment (Arcane Augmentation, and Replenish Land (revitalize the area by increasing terrain type by one category in a 895-foot radius per day), change type to aberration, ageless, +2 deflection bonus on your armor value , spell-like abilities discern lies, detect chaos/evil/good/law, and tongues, DR 5/–, SR/PR equal to HD + 2, fly 60 ft. (good)
Languages: Common, and Draconic, Elven, Dwarven, Ignan, Terran, tongues
Equipment: Wastelanders Outfit, Concealing Weave, knotted Giant hair “Spell book”, steel dagger

Exp. & Exp. Needed: 468915 / 496000
Money: 39996gp, 1695sp, 6407cp

Saving Throw Difficulty Class: 10 + 0 Spell lvl + 6 Int modifier
Spells able to memorize: 0 – 4,1st – 4, 2nd – 4, 3rd – 4, 4th – 4, 5th – 4, 6th – 4, 7th – 4, 8th – 4, 9th – 4
Bonus Spells: 1st – 2, 2nd – 2, 3rd – 1, 4th – 1, 5th – 1, 6th – 1, 7th – 0, 8th – 0, 9th – 0

Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 22nd):
0 lvl: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
1st lvl: Chill Touch, Disguise Self, Charm Person, Mage Armor, Identify, Mount
2nd lvl: Invisibility, Web, Magic Trick, Darkvision, Mirror Image, See Invisibility
3rd lvl: Fire Ball, Major Image, Lightning Bolt, Major Image, Dispel Magic
4th lvl: Scrying, Leomund’s Secure Shelter, Invisibility, Greater, Ice Storm, Touch the Black
5th lvl: Leomund’s Secret Chest, Cone of Cold, Wall of Force, Baleful Polymorph, Permanency
6th lvl: Undeath to Death, Chain Lightning, Analyze Dweomer, Circle of Death, Sands of Time
7th lvl: Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray, Spell Turning
8th lvl: Prying Eyes, Greater, Control Weather, Prismatic Wall, Maze
9th lvl: Wail of the Banshee, Meteor Swarm, Wish, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
Epic Spells Known As a wizard (CL 22nd):
Epic ― Preserver Metamorphosis II & III

Signature Spells: 1st – Magic Missile, 2nd – Scorching Ray, 3rd – Lightning Bolt, 4th – Phantasmal Killer, 5th – Teleport, 6th – Disintegrate, 7th – Forcecage, 8th – Horrid Wilting, 9th – Time Stop

Saving Throws Difficulty Class: 10 + the power’s level + 6 Int modifier
Power Points/Day 403 / 403; Psion Powers Known (ML 22nd):
1st lvl: Charm, Psionic, Mind Link, Mind Thrust, Conceal Thoughts, Missive
2nd lvl: Read Thoughts, Suggestion, Psionic, Biofeedback, Identify, Psionic
3rd lvl: Telekinetic Force, Energy Wall, Energy Bolt, False Sensory Input
4th lvl: Dominate, Psionic, Dimension Door, Psionic, Correspond, Telekinetic Maneuver, Hallucination*, Schism (ML 15th or ML -6)
5th lvl: Mind Probe, Psychic Crush, Plane Shift, Psionic, True Seeing, Psionic
6th lvl: Breath of the Black Dragon, Cloud Mind, Mass, Disintegrate, Psionic
7th lvl: Crisis of Life, Insanity, Phase Door, Psionic, Mindflame*
8th lvl: Teleport, Psionic Greater, Mind Blank, Psionic
9th lvl: Psychic Chirurgery, Microcosm, Assimilate, Mind Switch, True

Treasure: Claw of the Dead Lands (2 cursed wishes; first wish cast to learn how to use the Mirror of Ages to travel back into time before free year one) 1-inch Obsidian Orb of Energy Storing tied to the top of a Staff (0 HD; 200 HD limit), +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, Cloak of Shadows, Bracers of armor +2, ring of protection + 4, Veiling Amulet (perfect permanent image spell, need miracle or wish to see through), Dark Lens (kept in the Valley of the Earth Spirit back during the Green Age), Skull of Dorag Thel (kept in the Valley of the Earth Spirit back during the Green Age), Mirror of Ages (knows location of the Mirror in the Dead Lands), Tyr noble estate (1000cp per year; Abundant Terrain Type (Garden/Forest) 895-foot radius)

Thanks in advance to anyone who reply’s!

Rob.

#2

Can you give some guidance about where you think the stats might be wrong?

#3

Okay the CL/ML to start. Plus please review and let me know if you spot anything…I might have missed something else.

Thanks!

1 Like
#4

Okay. We have a LOT of problems in this statblock.

At 13th character level, somehow you have entered “epic cerebremancer” which has a prerequisite of 10 levels of the cerebremancer class, and must be an epic (21st level) character. There isn’t really anything that can be done with this statblock before the fundamentals are correct.

In terms of epic cerebremancer, there isn’t an official version of that, but it follows the exact same class chassis as the mystic theurge, which does have an epic progression. Here it is.

Epic Cerebremancer

Table: Epic Cerebremancer

Level Special
11th —
12th —
13th —
14th —
15th —
16th Bonus feat
17th —
18th —
19th —
20th —

Hit Die: d4

Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier

Manifesting:
When an odd-numbered cerebremancer level above 10th is gained, the character gains additional power points per day, powers known, and an increase in manifester level (and powers known, if applicable) as if they had also gained a level in an arcane spellcasting class to which they belonged.

When an even-numbered cerebremancer level above 10th is gained, the character gains additional power points per day, powers known, and an increase in manifester level (and powers known, if applicable) as if they had also gained a level in a psionic manifesting class to which they belonged.

Bonus Feats:
The epic cerebremancer gains a bonus feat (selected from the list of epic cerebremancer feats) every 6 levels after 10th.

As you can see, epic cerebremancer is suboptimal and I don’t recommend it at all. Just use the normal 10 levels of cerebremancer that you can see on the SRD.

Since you appear to be using Legends of Athas, to have sufficient class levels to qualify for the avangion prestige class, your build would have to look like this at minimum.

Wizard 7, Psion 4, Cerebremancer 10. That will give you the means to meet the entry requirements.

Avangion
Entry Requirements Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 24 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 24 ranks.
Feats: Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, any 2 metamagic or metapsionic feats.
Spells: Able to cast 9th-level arcane spells.
Psionics: Able to manifest 6th-level powers.
Special: Must be a preserver, and have cast the preserver metamorphosis I spell.

To be clear and direct, there is no way to have a rules legal build in the configuration in which you presented it.

#5

Okay the character has the Champion of Rajaat template and the gives the character a level adjustment of +8. So 13 + 8 = ECL of 21. I started the character as a level 1 defiler and he went back in time and gained the template. Then I leveled him up from there. I know the canon Rajaat would NOT have given the a level 1 character the template. But using the mirror of time he accessed an alternate time line where Rajaat of that time line DID give him the template to destroy humanity of the future once this character told him what happens in the future with the other champions and all that. So with that and alot of hand waving explains the levels…I hope that helps…

#6

No. Whatever forum you read that on has misinformed you. A level adjustment does not actually increase levels or offer availability of epic feats or classes pre-epic. All LA does is increase the amount of XP you need to gain levels. Don’t blame yourself. This is a very persistent myth.

If Rajaat granted this character the Champion of Rajaat template from Legends of Athas, he could still be that because there are no requirements. The class levels need to be moved around to make it rules legal.

What were your starting ability scores at 1st level? Without knowing that, it’s literally impossible to calculate anything.

#7

Oh dear god! Thanks for that! LMAO! okay you helped me correct something I always thought true about LA/ECL in 3.5e for 20 years! I am going to start from scratch and redo the character at level 1. I can then replay and build the character correctly.

1 Like
#8

Use this calculator that I created for your skills. It really simplifies what is a rather difficult calculation,

How to Use This Calculator

  1. Character Information:

  • Base Intelligence Score: Enter your character’s starting Intelligence score (before any increases).

  • Is Human: Check the box if your character is human (for the extra skill points).

  • Standard Ability Score Increases: Every four levels of experience (4, 8, 12, 16, 20, 24, 28, etc.), a character can add one point to any ability. List any points you allocated to Intelligence. Only include increases where you chose to increase Intelligence at these levels.

  • Other Intelligence Increases: Use the “Add Other INT Increase” button to add any Intelligence bonuses your character gets from sources other than level-based ability score increases. For each:

    • At Level: Enter the character level at which the bonus is gained.

    • Increase: Enter the amount of the Intelligence bonus.

    • Source: Specify the source of the bonus (e.g., “Tome of Clear Thought +2”, “Wish spell (inherent bonus)”, “Champion of Rajaat template”, or any other relevant source). This helps you track where bonuses come from. You can remove extra increases with the “Remove” button.

  1. Class Information:

  • Add Another Class: Click this button to add each class your character has levels in. Add them in the order you took them.

  • Class: Select the class from the dropdown menu. All standard 3.5 classes, plus some common options, are included.

  • Levels: Enter the number of levels you have in that class.

  • Level Order: This is crucially important. Enter the order in which you started taking levels in this class. For example:

    • If your first class was Fighter, its “Level Order” is 1.

    • If you then took levels in Rogue, Rogue’s “Level Order” is 2.

    • If you went back to Fighter, the second Fighter entry would have a “Level Order” of 3. This correctly calculates the 4x skill point multiplier for your first character level.

  • You can remove class entries with the “Remove Class” button.

  1. Calculate Skill Points: Once you’ve entered all the information, click this button. The calculator will:

  • Calculate the Intelligence modifier at each character level, accounting for all increases.

  • Calculate the skill points gained at each level, including the 4x multiplier for the first level and the human bonus (if applicable).

  • Show a breakdown of skill points per class and the total.

  • Show your intelligence score and modifier per level, as well as where intelligence increases came from.

  1. Add additional classes as needed. Be sure to add all classes in chronological order.
#9

Oh thanks. I’ll go over the calculator soon. Before I redo from scratch I ran the character through an AI I have been using. Here are the possible fix with the levels. " Lord Rethor of Tyr - Human Blight

Male Stage III Avangion, Champion of Rajaat
Wizard (Preserver) 3 / Telepath 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Epic Cerebremancer 4 / Avangion 3; ECL 31
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Size: Medium
Type: Aberration (Augmented Humanoid (Human), Psionic)

Physical Description

  • Age: 51
  • Height: 5’10"
  • Weight: 250 lbs
  • Complexion: Golden
  • Eyes: Gold
  • Hair: None

Ability Scores

Ability Score Modifier
Strength 16 +3
Dexterity 12 +1
Constitution 16 +3
Intelligence 23 +6
Wisdom 14 +2
Charisma 17 +3

Defenses

  • Armor Class: 21 (+1 Dex, +2 Deflection, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +2 Bracers of Armor, +4 Ring of Protection)
  • Hit Points: 261 (23d8 HD; +8 HP Psionic Body)
  • Regeneration: 10
  • Damage Reduction: 10/Epic and 5/–
  • Fire Resistance: 30 (Scorcher)
  • Power Resistance: 32
  • Spell Resistance: 32
  • Immunities: Disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, polymorphing, petrification

Saving Throws

Save Total Base Ability Mod Misc Mod
Fortitude +12 +7 +3 –
Reflex +10 +7 +1 –
Will +18 +16 +2 –

Attacks

  • Melee Attack: +14/+9/+4 (+11/+6/+1 Base, +3 Str)
  • Ranged Attack: +12/+7/+2 (+11/+6/+1 Base, +1 Dex)
  • Attacks:
    • +20/+20/+15/+10/+7 (1d8+9+1d6 cold dmg, 2x crit +1d10 cold dmg, Scorcher +6 speed keen icy burst bane longsword)
    • +13/+8/+3 (1d4+3/1d4+3, 1d6+3/1d6+3, 2x crit., Quarterstaff)
    • +13/+8/+3 (1d4+3, 2x crit., Steel Dagger)
  • Space: 5 ft.; Reach: 5 ft.
  • Base Attack: +11/+6/+1; Initiative: +1
  • Senses: Darkvision 60 feet, discern lies, detect chaos/evil/good/law
  • Speed: 30 ft, fly 60 ft. (good)

Feats

  • Mind over Body
  • Scribe Scroll (Bonus Class Feat)
  • Psionic Body (Bonus Racial Feat)
  • Quicken Spell (Metamagic)
  • Silent Spell (Metamagic)
  • Psionic Weapon
  • Greater Psionic Weapon (+4d6 melee attack damage)
  • Psionic Meditation
  • Craft Universal Item
  • Epic Spellcasting

Skills

Skill Total Ranks Ability Mod Misc. Mod.
Knowledge (Arcana) +31 25 +6 –
Knowledge (Psionics) +31 25 +6 –
Knowledge (the Planes) +21 13 +6 –
Spellcraft +31 25 +6 +2 (Synergy)
Psicraft +31 25 +6 –
Concentration +28 25 +3 –
Autohypnosis +17 15 +2 –

Spellcasting & Psionics

  • Caster Level: 20 (Wizard progression, adjusted for Cerebremancer and Avangion synergy)
  • Manifester Level: 20 (Adjusted for Cerebremancer and Avangion synergy)
  • Wizard Spells Prepared:
    • 0th: Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Prestidigitation
    • 1st: Chill Touch, Disguise Self, Charm Person, Mage Armor, Identify, Mount
    • 2nd: Invisibility, Web, Darkvision, Mirror Image, See Invisibility
    • 3rd: Fireball, Major Image, Lightning Bolt, Dispel Magic
    • 4th: Scrying, Leomund’s Secure Shelter, Invisibility (Greater), Ice Storm
    • 5th: Cone of Cold, Wall of Force, Baleful Polymorph, Permanency
    • 6th: Undeath to Death, Chain Lightning, Analyze Dweomer, Circle of Death
    • 7th: Mordenkainen’s Magnificent Mansion, Limited Wish, Prismatic Spray, Spell Turning
    • 8th: Prying Eyes (Greater), Control Weather, Prismatic Wall, Maze
    • 9th: Wail of the Banshee, Meteor Swarm, Wish, Mordenkainen’s Disjunction
  • Psionic Powers Known:
    • 1st-9th Level Powers: Various high-level psionic abilities, including Telekinetic Force, Mind Switch, True Metabolism, and more.

Gear

  • Claw of the Dead Lands (2 cursed wishes)
  • +2 Amulet of Natural Armor
  • Cloak of Shadows
  • Bracers of Armor +2
  • Ring of Protection +4
  • Veiling Amulet (perfect permanent image spell)
  • Dark Lens (kept in the Valley of the Earth Spirit)
  • Skull of Dorag Thel
  • Mirror of Ages
  • Tyr noble estate (1000cp per year; Abundant Terrain Type (Garden/Forest) 895-foot radius."
#10

3 + 3 + 10 = 16 character level. The ECL would be 22 at this point.

The ECL will determine how much experience points it takes to get to the next level, and how much treasure or equipment the character has. To get to character level 17, this character would need as many experience points as 23rd level character. It would be equipped as a creature with the character level equal to its ECL, which currently is 22.

There is no other advantage of ECL. At character level 16, it’s not an epic character and cannot take levels of epic cerebremancer at this stage.

From the SRD:

Epic characters—those whose character level is 21st or higher—are handled slightly differently from nonepic characters. While epic characters continue to receive most of the benefits of gaining levels, some benefits are replaced by alternative gains. A class can be advanced beyond 20th level. A ten-level prestige class can progress beyond 10th level, but only if the character level is already 20th or higher. A class with fewer than ten levels cannot progress beyond the maximum for that class, regardless of character level.

The character just has a heavy level adjustment. It isn’t epic. But let’s keep going.

At Wizard (Preserver) 3 / Telepath 3 / Cerebremancer 10 you have the equivalent of 13th level spellcasting and 13th manifesting for both wizard and psion. Even if you were to take 4 levels of epic cerebremancer, and note that you cannot under the rules, in epic levels the epic cerebremancer is a half dual progression class, instead of the full dual progression class it was at pre-epic levels. You four illegal levels of epic cerebremancer get you only to 16th level spellcasting and manifesting, because epic cerebremancer only advances psion at levels 21 and 23, and wizard at levels 22 and 24. You cannot take levels in avangion because you do not meet the requirement of being able to cast 9th level spells.

Wizard 7, Psion 4, Cerebremancer 10 is the earliest you could possibly gain access to the avangion prestige class in terms of the requisite spell levels. Since you character was changed by Rajaat and didn’t cast preserver metaphosis 1 itself, perhaps it is able to meet this prerequisite from the avangion class - Special: Must be a preserver, and have cast the preserver metamorphosis I spell.

The safest way to manage this to ensure it’s all rules legal is to Wizard 7, Psion 4, Cerebremancer 10, and the feat that you must take at character 21 (and note, not ECL 21 - ECL does not affects feats or anything except was was described) is epic spellcasting.

If you are having trouble with the ECL, just put it out of your mind and stop thinking about it. ECL is irrelevant to your build.

#11

ECL is important because I did level the character up to level/ecl 31. He does have the xp for it. I just screwed up the epic part of the character…So I could just use the following Cerebremancer table and go with wizard 3 / psion 3 / cerebremancer 14 / avangion 3 with the champion template to get to ecl 31:

Table The Cerebremancer

Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Spellcasting Progression
1st +0 +0 +0 +2 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
2nd +1 +0 +0 +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
3rd +1 +1 +1 +3 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
4th +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
5th +2 +1 +1 +4 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
6th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
7th +3 +2 +2 +5 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
8th +4 +2 +2 +6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
9th +4 +3 +3 +6 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
10th +5 +3 +3 +7 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
11th +5 +3 +3 +7 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
12th +6 +4 +4 +8 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
13th +6 +4 +4 +8 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
14th +7 +4 +4 +9 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
15th +7 +5 +5 +9 +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class / +1 level of existing manifesting class
#12

I’m quite exhausted. I fed our conversation into an AI model, and I will use it to explain the nature of the problem to you.

Addressing Robert_Trotter’s Character Build: A 3.5e Rules-Based Explanation

The proposed character builds contain several errors according to the rules of D&D 3.5e. These errors stem from a misunderstanding of Character Level, Level Adjustment (LA), Effective Character Level (ECL), and the specific rules for epic levels and prestige classes.

  1. Character Level, Level Adjustment, and Effective Character Level: The Rules

    • Character Level: This is the sum of all levels gained in classes. It determines base attack bonus, saving throws, class features, skill points, and eligibility for feats and prestige classes. Only Character Level matters for meeting prerequisites.
    • Level Adjustment (LA): This is a value assigned to powerful races/templates. LA does not grant class features, hit dice, skill points, or feats. It only affects:
      • XP needed to gain the next character level.
      • Starting wealth.
    • Effective Character Level (ECL): This is Character Level + LA. ECL is only used for:
      • XP needed to gain the next character level.
      • Starting wealth.

    D&D 3.5e Rule: ECL cannot be used to meet prerequisites for feats or prestige classes. Only Character Level counts.

  2. Epic Level Rules (D&D 3.5e)

    A character must have a Character Level of 21 or higher to:

    • Take epic feats.
    • Begin an epic prestige class.

    D&D 3.5e Rule: LA and ECL do not count towards the Character Level 21 requirement for epic feats and classes.

  3. Cerebremancer Class Rules (Expanded Psionics Handbook) and Epic Progression

    • Standard Cerebremancer: At each level, the character gains:
      • +1 level in an existing arcane spellcasting class.
      • +1 level in an existing psionic manifesting class.
      • The Cerebremancer prestige class has a maximum of 10 levels.
    • Epic Cerebremancer (Following Epic Mystic Theurge Pattern):
      • Odd-numbered epic levels (21, 23, etc.): Advance psionic manifesting.
      • Even-numbered epic levels (22, 24, etc.): Advance arcane spellcasting.
      • A character can only begin taking levels in this epic progression after reaching Character Level 21.

  4. Avangion
    Must be able to cast 9th level spells.

Analysis of Robert’s Build Attempts and the Rules Violations:

  • Attempt 1: “Wizard 3 / Telepath 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Epic Cerebremancer 4 / Avangion 3”

    • Character Level: 3 + 3 + 10 + 4 + 3 = 23
    • Rule Violation 1: Epic Cerebremancer Before Character Level 21: The rules state that “Epic Cerebremancer” levels require a Character Level of 21. This build attempts to take them at an effective level of 16 + 8 LA. This is incorrect.
    • Rule Violation 2: Avangion Before 9th-Level Spells: Even if the Epic Cerebremancer levels were allowed at this point, the spellcasting and power progression would be:
      • Wizard: 3 + 10 + 2 = 15th level (maximum 8th-level spells). This violates the Avangion prerequisite of casting 9th-level arcane spells.
      • Psion 3 + Cerebremancer 10 + Epic Cerebremancer (2 levels) = 15th-level Psion manifesting (maximum 8th level powers).
    • Incorrect Application of ECL: The build incorrectly assumes ECL allows bypassing prerequisites.

  • Attempt 2: “wizard 3 / psion 3 / cerebremancer 14 / avangion 3”

    • Character Level: 3 + 3 + 14 + 3 = 23
    • Rule Violation 1: Taking Levels in a Standard Prestige Class beyond its maximum: He is trying to take 14 levels of the Cerebremancer PrC, but the class has only 10 levels. He may only take a maximum of 10 levels.
    • Rule Violation 2: Avangion Before 9th-Level Spells: The spellcasting progression is:
      • Wizard: 3 + 10 = 13th level (maximum 7th-level spells). This violates the Avangion prerequisite.

  • Psion 3 + Cerebremancer 10 = 13th level psion manifesting.

    • Incorrect Application of ECL: The build incorrectly assumes ECL allows bypassing prerequisites.

Correct Build Progression (Example, Meeting All 3.5e Rules):

A valid progression would be:

  1. Wizard 7: Provides 4th-level arcane spells.
  2. Psion 4: Provides 2nd level powers.
  3. Cerebremancer 10: Advances both spellcasting and manifesting. At Character Level 21, the character has:
    • 17th-level Wizard casting (7 + 10), granting 9th-level spells.
    • 14th-level Psion manifesting (4 + 10).
  4. Epic Spellcasting Feat: Take the feat.
  5. Avangion: The build may now proceed.

Summary of Errors:

  • Robert is incorrectly using ECL to meet Character Level requirements.
  • Robert is attempting to take epic levels before reaching Character Level 21.
  • Robert is incorrectly taking more than 10 levels of the cerebremancer class.
  • Robert’s builds do not provide 9th-level arcane spells before taking Avangion levels.

redking back again: I will add this, from Dragon Magazine #310, explaining ECL.

Sage Advice

THE SAGE GOES 3.5
OFFICIAL ANSWERS

by Skip Williams

This month the Sage goes 3.5, offers guidance on the Savage Species book, and ponders the many aspects of the Manyshot feat. This month, and for as many months as we can see into the future, the Sage’s answers to your questions will reference the 3.5 revision of the core rules. If you haven’t yet adopted the revision, don’t worry—in the rare instance that the answer is different between 3rd Edition and the 3.5 revision, we’ll bring it to your attention with a call out that says “Revision Alert.”

I’m confused by the current alphabet soup of abbreviations dealing with exactly how tough a monster or a character is. What are character level, class level, EL, ECL, and CR? How do they relate to each other? Are they interchangeable? If not, what are they used for?

The terms are not interchangeable. You can find definitions of most of these terms in the Player’s Handbook glossary or in Savage Species, but here’s an overview.

  • Class Level: The total number of levels you have in a particular class. A 5th-level fighter has 5 class levels in fighter. A 5th-level fighter/5th-level wizard has 5 class levels in fighter and 5 class levels in wizard. Class level affects so many things it would be tedious to list them all in detail. The most important include: number of Hit Dice (1 per class level), base attack bonus, base saving throw bonuses, and number of skill points, all as shown in the description for the class. If a class gives you bonus feats, it’s your class level that determines when you get them.

In addition, most level-based variables for a class feature depend on your class level, as does any level-based variable for a spell you cast as a member of that class. Powers from clerical domains are class features, and any level-based variables they have depend on your level in the class that gives you access to the domain.

  • Character Level: The total number of class levels you have in all your classes, plus any racial Hit Dice you have. A human 5th-level fighter/5th-level wizard has 10 character levels. An ogre 5th-level fighter/5th-level wizard has 14 character levels (because it has 4 racial Hit Dice). Character levels determine when you gain feats and ability score increases (see Table 3-2: Experience and Level-Dependent Benefits in the Player’s Handbook). Any feat you get by virtue of your character level is in addition to any bonus feats from your class levels.

In addition, your character level determines how much experience you earn when you defeat a foe and how many experience points you need to gain your next class level.

  • Effective Character Level (ECL): Effective character level is character level plus the level adjustment for the character’s race. Races that are more powerful than the standard races in the Player’s Handbook have level adjustments to help promote some equity among the player characters in a campaign and to help DMs decide how much danger a party containing members of those races can actually handle. For example, a drow has a level adjustment of +2. Many people (and even one or two rulebooks) say “ECL” when they really mean “level adjustment.”

Use the character’s ECL to determine starting equipment and how the character earns and benefits from experience, as noted on page 5 of Savage Species. Use the actual character level for everything else.

  • Encounter Level (EL): Encounter Level is strictly a tool for the DM to use when deciding if a particular encounter is too easy, about right, or too hard for a particular group of characters. It has no real effect on play. Some people think that Encounter Level determines how much experience characters gain from an encounter, but that’s not so (read on).

  • Challenge Rating (CR): Challenge Rating reflects a game designer’s best judgment about how tough a monster will prove in a fight. The CRs of all the creatures in an encounter help to determine the encounter’s EL (see Chapter 4: Adventures in the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide). When characters defeat a creature, its CR determines the basic experience award, which in turn is adjusted according to the party’s character levels or ECLs (see Chapter 2: Using the Rules in the DUNGEON MASTER’s Guide).

It is perhaps unfortunate that an NPC who belongs to a standard Player’s Handbook race has a CR equal to her character level, because it implies that CR, character level, and ECL are the same. They aren’t—CR and character level just happen to have the same values sometimes. CR and ECL have nothing to do with each other, because they measure two different things. See the next question.

When is a monster character considered epic level? Do you “go epic” when your total class levels equal 20 or when your total Hit Dice equal 20?

Is a monster character eligible for epic-level feats (such as Epic Toughness) when its character level is 21+ or when its ECL is 21+?

A monster becomes an epic-level character when its character level hits 21, just like any other character. A monster’s character level is equal to its racial Hit Dice + class levels. (See the second sidebar on page 25 of the Epic Level Handbook.)

A creature’s ECL has no effect on when it becomes an epic character, although once it becomes an epic character, its ECL continues to affect how much experience it earns and when it can add a new level.

The answer is complete in every sense. No one can help with the statblock until the fundamentals are fixed.

#13

Ssssssssoooooooooo. Thanks for everything. I do get the problem with the build. I tried your tatic and copy paste the ENTIRE discussion into a different AI and asked it to review and rebuild the character for me. It agreed with your assessment and here is the new stat block, i can see a problem with the skill points are maxed at 23 ranks so that will need to be fixed. Please look and comment when you have the time and energy please:
Lord Rethor of Tyr - Human Blight
Male Stage III Avangion, Champion of Rajaat
Wizard (Preserver) 7 / Psion (Telepath) 3 / Cerebremancer 10 / Avangion 3
ECL 31 (Character Level 23 + Level Adjustment +8*)
CN Medium aberration (augmented humanoid (human), psionic

Abilities

Ability Score Mod Temp Score Temp Mod
Str 16 +3 – –
Dex 12 +1 – –
Con 16 +3 – –
Int 23 +6 – –
Wis 14 +2 – –
Cha 17 +3 – –

AC: 21 (+1 Dex, +2 deflection, +2 Amulet of Natural Armor, +2 Bracers of Armor, +4 Ring of Protection)
HP: 218 (7d4 + 3d4 + 10d4 + 3d8 + 80 Con mod + 8 Psionic Body)
Regeneration: 10, DR: 10/epic and 5/–
Immune: Disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, ability drain, petrification, polymorphing.
Resist: Fire 30 (Scorcher)
PR/SR: 25 (HD 23 + 2)
Speed: 30 ft., fly 60 ft. (good)

Saving Throws

Total Base Ability Mod Misc
Fortitude +12 +8 +3 +1
Reflex +10 +8 +1 +1
Will +19 +15 +2 +2

Attacks

  • Scorcher Longsword: +14/+9/+4 (1d8+9 +1d6 cold, 19–20/x2)
  • Quarterstaff: +12/+7/+2 (1d6+3)
  • Steel Dagger: +12/+7/+2 (1d4+3)

Base Attack Bonus: +11/+6/+1
Initiative: +1

Spellcasting

Wizard CL 17 (7 base + 10 Cerebremancer):

  • Spells Per Day: 4/6/6/6/5/5/4/4/3
  • 9th-Level Spells: Wish, Time Stop, Meteor Swarm
  • Signature Spells: Disintegrate (6th), Teleport (5th), Forcecage (7th)

Psion ML 13 (3 base + 10 Cerebremancer):

  • Power Points: 223/day
  • 7th-Level Powers: Schism, Crisis of Life, Mind Switch
  • Key Powers: Charm Psionic, Dominate Psionic, Telekinetic Force

Skills (Total Points: 228)

Skill Total Ranks Ability Misc
Knowledge (Arcana) +28 23 +6 –
Psicraft +28 23 +6 –
Concentration +25 23 +3 –
Spellcraft +28 23 +6 +2
Autohypnosis +17 15 +2 –
Bluff +10 7 +3 –

Feats

  1. Mind Over Body (Con to AC)
  2. Psionic Body (+8 HP)
  3. Quicken Spell
  4. Epic Spellcasting
  5. Craft Universal Item
  6. Psionic Meditation
  7. Greater Psionic Weapon

Special Abilities

  • Genocidal Focus: +4d6 damage vs. humans (Fort DC 27 or disintegrate).
  • Avangion Magic: Revitalize 895-ft. radius terrain daily (desert → scrubland).
  • Defiling Immunity: Cast spells without harming the land.
  • Spell-Like Abilities: Discern Lies, Detect Chaos/Evil/Good/Law, Tongues.

Equipment

  • Scorcher Longsword: +6 Keen Icy Burst Bane (vs. humans).
  • Dark Lens: Stored in the Valley of the Earth Spirit (grants +2 Psicraft).
  • Mirror of Ages: Hidden in the Dead Lands (time-travel plot device).
  • Amulet of Natural Armor +2, Ring of Protection +4, Bracers of Armor +2.

Progression Breakdown

  1. Wizard 7: Grants 4th-level spells.
  2. Psion 3: Foundational telepathic powers.
  3. Cerebremancer 10: Advances Wizard to 17 (9th-level spells) and Psion to 13 (7th-level powers).
  4. Avangion 3: Unlocks immortality, terrain revitalization, and DR 10/epic.

ECL: 23 (Character Level) + 8 (Avangion LA) = 31.

Treasure & Background

  • Tyr Noble Estate: Generates 1,000cp/year from revitalized land.
  • Claw of the Dead Lands: Cursed artifact with 2 wishes (1 used to locate the Mirror of Ages).
  • Obsidian Orb of Energy Storing: Tied to a staff (200 HD capacity).

Summary: This rebuild adheres to 3.5e rules, fixes progression errors, and optimizes Rethor as a high-level arcane/psionic hybrid. Key changes include proper use of ECL, meeting Avangion’s 9th-level spell prerequisite, and respecting prestige class limits. Adjust XP/wealth for ECL 31 as needed.

#14

Close, but psion 3 won’t cut it. Here is what your AI friend is missing.

At Wizard (Preserver) 7 / Psion (Telepath) 3 / Cerebremancer 10, you could enter epic cerebremancer because you explicitly meet the requirements for that, which are 20 overall character levels which must include 10 levels of cerebremancer. Not that you’d ever do that because epic cerebremancer is terrible. So you must he asking yourself why I’m telling you it won’t cut it. it is because you want to select the avangion prestige class and must meet the requirements. And the requirements of the avangion class are:

Entry Requirements Skills:
Knowledge (arcana) 24 ranks, Knowledge (psionics) 24 ranks. > Not met
Feats: Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, any 2 metamagic or metapsionic feats. > implicitly not met (see below)
Spells: Able to cast 9th-level arcane spells. > Met
Psionics: Able to manifest 6th-level powers. > Met
Special: Must be a preserver, and have cast the preserver metamorphosis I spell. > You need the epic spellcasting feat to cast epic spells, which is what I was referring to in the feats section.

You must have a character level of 21 already to even have a chance of meeting these requirements, and epic spellcasting MUST be the bonus feat you take for character levels at level 21.

One other thing is that we need to verify the statblock is your ability scores at level one, and any increases to the intelligence score at levels 4, 8, 12, 16 (ad infinitum) and the precise level that your character was when Rajaat gave him the Champion of Rajaat, because that also grants a +4 increase to intelligence. To get the skills right, all you need is to use the calculator that I provided, enter the increases, and all your skill points with be calculated with 100% accuracy.

So what now? You need to rebuild the character as Wizard (Preserver) 7 / Psion (Telepath) 4 / Cerebremancer 10 = character level 21, then add the avangion prestige class, while being careful to meet all the listed requirements.

#15

Hey,

Well that last AI was DeepSeek. The one I normally use is a custom ChatGPT called Athasian Lorekeeper. It can be found at: ChatGPT - Athasian Lorekeeper. Visit it and try to see how good it is. Here is what it came up with. Let me know if you think its better.
Alright, let’s build a level 23 Avangion from scratch, making sure that it follows all prerequisites and progresses logically before adding the Champion of Rajaat template at the end to bring it to ECL 31.

Step 1: Determine Base Classes and Level Progression

To qualify for Avangion, the character must meet these requirements from Legends of Athas:

  • Skills: 24 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana) and Knowledge (Psionics)
  • Feats: Mind Over Body, Psionic Body, two metamagic/metapsionic feats
  • Spellcasting: Must be able to cast 9th-level arcane spells
  • Psionics: Must be able to manifest 6th-level powers
  • Special: Must be a Preserver and have cast Preserver Metamorphosis I

Optimal Class Progression (Level 1-23)

To get 9th-level spells and 6th-level powers, the best route is:

  1. Wizard (Preserver) 7 → Grants 4th-level spells
  2. Psion (Telepath) 4 → Grants 2nd-level powers
  3. Cerebremancer 10 → Advances both Wizard and Psion to 9th-level spells and 6th-level powers
  4. Avangion 2 → Begins Avangion transformation

At level 23, this character will have:

  • Caster Level: 17 (Wizard 7 + Cerebremancer 10) → 9th-level spells :white_check_mark:
  • Manifester Level: 14 (Psion 4 + Cerebremancer 10) → 6th-level powers :white_check_mark:

Step 2: Assign Ability Scores

Rolling or point-buy method aside, a reasonable base stat spread for a wizard/psion is:

Ability Base Level Ups (+5) Final
Strength 10 - 10
Dexterity 12 - 12
Constitution 14 +1 (Lvl 8) 15
Intelligence 18 +3 (Lvl 4, 12, 20) 21
Wisdom 12 +1 (Lvl 16) 13
Charisma 14 - 14
  • Intelligence is maxed for spellcasting.
  • Constitution gets a small boost for survivability.
  • Charisma and Wisdom remain decent for psionics and will saves.

Step 3: Feats

At level 23, the character has 9 general feats + bonus feats from Wizard, Psion, and Avangion.

Required Feats (for Avangion)

  • Mind Over Body
  • Psionic Body
  • Two Metamagic/Metapsionic feats (e.g., Quicken Spell, Extend Spell)

Additional Feats

  • Psionic Meditation (to regain psionic focus easily)
  • Epic Spellcasting (needed for Preserver Metamorphosis spells)
  • Craft Universal Item (for psionic item crafting)
  • Improved Initiative (always useful)
  • Greater Psionic Weapon (extra psionic damage)

Step 4: Skills

Skill Total Ranks Ability Mod Misc
Knowledge (Arcana) 26 +5 -
Knowledge (Psionics) 26 +5 -
Concentration 26 +2 -
Spellcraft 26 +5 +2 (Synergy)
Psicraft 26 +5 -
Autohypnosis 15 +1 -
  • Knowledge (Arcana/Psionics) must be at 24 for Avangion.
  • Spellcraft and Psicraft are high to complement the dual progression.

Step 5: Spellcasting & Powers

Wizard (Preserver) Spells Per Day

Spell Level Per Day
0th 4
1st 5
2nd 5
3rd 5
4th 5
5th 5
6th 4
7th 4
8th 3
9th 3

Psion Powers Known

Power Level Known PP Cost
1st 4 1-3
2nd 3 3-5
3rd 3 5-7
4th 3 7-9
5th 2 9-11
6th 2 11-13

Step 6: Add Champion of Rajaat Template

At ECL 31, we add the Champion of Rajaat template from Legends of Athas.
This grants:

  • +8 ECL (no extra levels, just increased XP cost)
  • Genocidal Focus (designate a species for destruction, bonus damage vs. them)
  • Epic Fortitude & Will Saves
  • Regeneration 10
  • Defiler Detection
  • Immunity to death effects and mind control

Final Character Summary

Lord Rethor of Tyr – Human Blight

Male Stage III Avangion, Champion of Rajaat
Wizard (Preserver) 7 / Psion (Telepath) 4 / Cerebremancer 10 / Avangion 2
ECL 31 (23 class levels + LA +8)
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral
Type: Aberration (Augmented Humanoid (Human), Psionic)

Defenses:

  • AC: 25 (Bracers of Armor +4, Ring of Protection +5, Amulet of Natural Armor +3)
  • HP: ~260 (d8 HD with Constitution bonuses)
  • DR: 10/Epic, 5/–
  • SR/PR: 35
  • Immunities: Death effects, mind-affecting, poison, disease, ability drain/damage.

Abilities:

  • Caster Level 19 (Wizard)
  • Manifester Level 16 (Psion)
  • Epic Spellcasting
  • Avangion Metamorphosis III
  • Fly Speed 90 ft. (Perfect)

Equipment:

  • Dark Lens (stored in an unknown location)
  • Mirror of Ages (Dead Lands artifact)
  • Champion’s Sigil (grants +4 to a chosen ability)
  • Psionic Orb of Energy Storing (200 PP limit)

Final Thoughts

This properly-built level 23 Avangion ensures:
:white_check_mark: Correct spellcasting & manifesting levels
:white_check_mark: Meets all class prerequisites
:white_check_mark: Proper skill ranks and feat progression
:white_check_mark: Champion template added after level 23

This is now rules-legal, powerful, and fitting for an ECL 31 character in Dark Sun! :rocket: Let me know if you need modifications!

#16

We still have some problems. We need to know what feats were acquired at what level.

I’m not sure why the AI dismissed point buy methods, or even the elite stay array. The assigned scores are extremely excessive as base scores.

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This is a 38 point buy! Look, in 3.5e, if you want high ability scores, you get items to boost those stats. Your advanced being character should have a belt of magnificence.

Belt of Magnificence
This sparkling metal belt projects power and authority. The belt adds a +2, +4 or +6 enhancement bonus to the wearer’s Strength, Dexterity, Constitution, Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma scores.
Strong transmutation; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous Item, bear’s endurance, bull’s strength, cat’s grace, eagle’s splendor, fox’s cunning, owl’s wisdom; Price 25,000 gp (+2), 100,000 gp (+4) or 200,000 gp (+6).
Source: Miniatures Handbook

Use this calculator for a 25-point buy or just use the elite array, which is 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8.

If you don’t like penalties to modifiers, the following is probably the optimum for your character.

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You should really reconsider these feats. I think there are a lot of problems in general these feats, but psionic weapon stands out as particularly useless for this character.

Psionic Weapon
( Expanded Psionics Handbook, p. 50)

[Psionic]

You can charge your melee weapon with additional damage potential.

Prerequisite
STR 13, (redking: you don’t even meet the prerequisite for the feat!)

Benefit
To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus (see the Concentration skill description, page 37). Your attack with a melee weapon deals an extra 2d6 points of damage.

You must decide whether or not to use this feat prior to making an attack. If your attack misses, you still expend your psionic focus.

There is a role for AI but you have to verify its output

I can’t verify these yet. I need to know about the feats.

This is logically nonsensical. I need to know, at what precise CHARACTER LEVEL (and BTW, ECL plays absolutely no role in this discussion, so you should discard it ENTIRELY) that you acquired the champion of Rajaat template. Without knowing this, a skill point calculation is impossible.

Final thoughts: if you follow the steps that I’ve outlined, you will build a rules legal character.

#17

Okay. Here is the level 1 version of the character that I will re level up as a PC in a single player game with AI acting as a DM.

Rethor the Human Blight

Character Name: Rethor the Human Blight Race: Human Class: Wizard (Defiler) 1 Template: Champion of Rajaat Alignment: Neutral Evil Deity: None (Arcane Focus) Size: Medium Age: 22 Gender: Male Height: 5’10" Weight: 160 lbs Eyes: Black Hair: Bald Skin: Tanned

Attributes (Elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) (Adjusted for Template)

  • Strength: 14 (+2)
  • Dexterity: 14 (+2)
  • Constitution: 17 (+3)
  • Intelligence: 19 (+4)
  • Wisdom: 16 (+3)
  • Charisma: 12 (+1)

Champion of Rajaat Traits

  • Additionally, since his focus is on the human type, he can also target half-human races such as half-elves. Against members of this race, he deals +4d6 bonus damage with spells and weapons he wields gain the dread weapon trait (+4 enhancement and +4d6 bonus damage).
  • Signature Spells (Sp): Chooses one spell per level (1st-9th) that he can spontaneously cast by sacrificing any prepared spell of equal or greater level.
  • Damage Reduction (Su): 10/epic.
  • Energy Storing (Su): Can drain life energy from nearby creatures using obsidian orbs, inflicting negative levels on enemies within 10 feet per 1/2 HD each round.
  • Immortality (Ex): Does not age, need to eat, sleep, or breathe; can only die through extraordinary means.
  • Regeneration (Ex): 10; only harmed by cold and sonic damage.
  • Immunities (Ex): Immune to disease, poison, stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects, disintegration, energy drain, ability damage, polymorph, and petrification.
  • Resistances (Ex): Spell resistance and power resistance 32.

Hit Points & Saves

  • Hit Dice: 1d4+3 (7 HP, always max per template)
  • Fortitude: +3
  • Reflex: +2
  • Will: +5

Combat

  • Initiative: +2
  • Armor Class: 12 (10 base + 2 Dex)
  • Touch AC: 12
  • Flat-Footed AC: 10
  • Base Attack Bonus (BAB): +0
  • Melee Attack: +2 (dagger, 1d4+2, 19-20/x2)
  • Ranged Attack: +2 (sling, 1d4, x2, 50 ft.)
  • Grapple: +2
  • Speed: 30 ft.

Skills (4 base + 4 Int + 1 human = 9 per level)

  • Concentration: +7 (4 ranks + 3 Con)
  • Knowledge (Arcana): +8 (4 ranks + 4 Int)
  • Knowledge (Local - Tyr region): +8 (4 ranks + 4 Int)
  • Spellcraft: +8 (4 ranks + 4 Int)
  • Bluff: +3 (4 ranks + 1 Cha)

Feats

  • Scribe Scroll (Wizard Bonus Feat) – Can create scrolls of spells he knows.
  • Destructive Raze (Defiler Feat) – Increases the penalty suffered by creatures in defiled terrain by -1.
  • Toughness (1st-Level Feat) – Grants +3 HP.

Languages

  • Common
  • Elven (bonus language from Int)

Spells

  • Caster Level: 1
  • Spells Per Day: (0th: 3, 1st: 2)
  • Spells Known:
    • 0th: Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Read Magic
    • 1st: Magic Missile, Shield
  • Signature Spell (1st-Level): Magic Missile (Can sacrifice any 1st-level or higher spell slot to cast this spontaneously)

Equipment

  • Quarterstaff
  • Dagger (bone)
  • Sling with 10 bullets
  • Spellbook (contains all known spells)
  • Obsidian Orb (used for Energy Storing)
  • Backpack
  • Waterskin (half-full)
  • Traveler’s Outfit (ragged)
  • 5 ceramic pieces (currency)

Background & Personality

Rethor was created by Rajaat before the Champion Revolt as a contingency plan should his champions betray him. His purpose was to eradicate humanity itself, ensuring Rajaat’s vision of a restored Blue Age would be fulfilled. Before Rajaat was sealed away, Rethor was locked in temporal stasis, hidden from time, awaiting the fall of the Champions. With Rajaat’s defeat, the stasis was undone, and Rethor has now emerged into a world where his mission must begin anew.

He seeks to rebuild the might of the Cleansing Wars, beginning with the subjugation of those who oppose his dark purpose.

Personality Traits: Ruthless, patient, unwavering. Ideals: The strong rule, the weak perish. Bonds: Serves the lingering will of Rajaat. Flaws: Unrelenting in his mission, disregards personal risk.

Tactics in Combat

  • Opens with Shield for defense.
  • Uses Magic Missile against key enemies.
  • Willing to defile without hesitation, ensuring maximum spell potency.
  • Relies on Energy Storing to weaken foes over time.
  • Avoids melee combat, letting allies absorb attacks.

Defiler’s Mark

  • Every time Rethor casts a spell using defiling magic, the terrain around him withers, marking his path. Druids and preservers may recognize these traces and seek him out for retribution.
#18

This is a start. When this character was transformed by Rajaat in the Steeple of Crystals, was he a 1 HD humanoid (Human) yet to take his first class level, or was he already a first level defiler? Because of the +4 bump to Intelligence from the Champion of Rajaat template, the question of when it happens is very important for skill points, especially at first class level when the number of skill points is X4.

If Intelligence was 15 when taking the first wizard level, the number of skill points is:

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If Intelligence was 19, that is your character has the Champion of Rajaat template when taking the first wizard level, the number of skill points is:

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This was done through my skill points calculator.

If you character was ALREADY a first level wizard when transformed by Rajaat, these are it’s skill points at level 23, assuming ALL intelligence increases are to intelligence.
Race: Human

Class: wizard (7 levels)
Character Level 1: INT 15, Modifier +2, Skill Points 20
Character Level 2: INT increased by 4 to 19 (from: Unspecified +4)
Character Level 2: INT 19, Modifier +4, Skill Points 7
Character Level 3: INT 19, Modifier +4, Skill Points 7
Character Level 4: INT increased by 1 to 20
Character Level 4: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 5: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 6: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 7: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Total for wizard: 66 skill points

Class: +2 class (4 levels)
Character Level 8: INT increased by 1 to 21
Character Level 8: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 9: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 10: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 11: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Total for +2 class: 32 skill points

Class: +2 class (10 levels)
Character Level 12: INT increased by 1 to 22
Character Level 12: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 13: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 14: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 15: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 16: INT increased by 1 to 23
Character Level 16: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 17: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 18: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 19: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 20: INT increased by 1 to 24
Character Level 20: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Character Level 21: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Total for +2 class: 92 skill points

Class: +2 class (2 levels)
Character Level 22: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Character Level 23: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Total for +2 class: 20 skill points

Total Character Skill Points: 210

If your character had not taken its first class level before being transformed by Rajaat, these are it’s skill points at level 23, assuming ALL intelligence increases are to intelligence.

Base Intelligence Score: 15

Race: Human

Class: wizard (7 levels)
Character Level 1: INT increased by 4 to 19 (from: Unspecified +4)
Character Level 1: INT 19, Modifier +4, Skill Points 28
Character Level 2: INT 19, Modifier +4, Skill Points 7
Character Level 3: INT 19, Modifier +4, Skill Points 7
Character Level 4: INT increased by 1 to 20
Character Level 4: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 5: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 6: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 7: INT 20, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Total for wizard: 74 skill points

Class: +2 class (4 levels)
Character Level 8: INT increased by 1 to 21
Character Level 8: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 9: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 10: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Character Level 11: INT 21, Modifier +5, Skill Points 8
Total for +2 class: 32 skill points

Class: +2 class (10 levels)
Character Level 12: INT increased by 1 to 22
Character Level 12: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 13: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 14: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 15: INT 22, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 16: INT increased by 1 to 23
Character Level 16: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 17: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 18: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 19: INT 23, Modifier +6, Skill Points 9
Character Level 20: INT increased by 1 to 24
Character Level 20: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Character Level 21: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Total for +2 class: 92 skill points

Class: +2 class (2 levels)
Character Level 22: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Character Level 23: INT 24, Modifier +7, Skill Points 10
Total for +2 class: 20 skill points

Total Character Skill Points: 218

You can consider your skill point problem solved. All you need to do is assign them.

#19

Hey Robert,

I’ve used my D&D 3.5 character calculator to work out your build. Here’s the breakdown:

Class and Level Breakdown:

  • Wizard: 7 Levels

  • Psion: 4 Levels

  • Cerebremancer: 10 Levels

  • Archmage: 2 Levels (I used Archmage as a stand-in for Avangion, since they have essentially the same progression for these calculations.)

Character Level:

  • Total Level 23
    *Non-Epic:20
    *Epic 3

Calculated Stats:

  • Base Attack Bonus (BAB): 9

  • Saving Throws:

    • Fortitude: 6

    • Reflex: 6

    • Will: 15

  • Number of Feats: 8

  • Epic BAB 2

  • Epic Saving Throw Bonus:
    *Fortitude +1
    *Reflex +1
    *Will+1

Total Combined Stats:

  • Total BAB: 11

  • Total Saving Throws:

    • Fortitude: 7

    • Reflex: 7

    • Will: 16

This is all base, before modifications from ability scores, templates, and magical items. This does not include feats from classes that you may have, only feats from character level. You should have all the building blocks you need now to complete your build.

#20

Okay I need to replay the single player game again. It will take a few week to play through it. As I do I will use these numbers and you calculator as I go. Most likely I will make some changes as I level this character. Might go with a shadow shift build instead. Once I am finished I will post the end character.

Thanks for all of your help!
Rob.

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