According to the Prism Pentad, Andropinis, Dictator of Balic, was banished to the Black by Rajaat. In the gaming material updating the setting taking into account the events in PP, the Balican templars have lost their spells.
But why? There is no reason to believe that extraplanar imprisonment prevents the provision of spells to templars. Most likely, new templars could not be initiated, but the existing templars should keep their spells.
This would make for a much more dynamic scenario in Balic. The templars would still be in control for the moment, but know that they are on borrowed time. Most likely they would try to cover up the disappearance of their leader. And you wouldnât have a situation of merchant houses trying to take over the city and act as sovereigns, something that goes against all the lore we have about the activities of merchant houses of the Tyr Region.
Its not a stretch to imagine that the elemental conduit granting the ability to grant spells needs to terminate on the prime to function (aka, doesnât work across additional planar boundaries).
Yep, this is something Iâve thought about, but Dregoth was able to cross planar boundaries via the gate, I always surmised if his templars temporarily lost their spells when he traveled the planes.
Just to play Devilâs Advocate here, maybe the spell loss is part of Andropinisâ imprisonment- an extra chain Rajaat applied to ensure his wayward Champion couldnât easily get ouf.
There is no indication that Dregoth suffers such an impediment. I suspect that the Sorcerer Monarchs are just the on/off switch for the elemental vortices. The energy (I surmise) does not actually pass through the Sorcerer Monarchs, which is likely the reason why they cannot access the energy directly themselves.
I agree, but how would anyone know?
A) He and the Dray are sequestered underground and basically a secret.
B) We have no idea when exactly or how long he was away.
C) We have no well filled-out history of New G. to work off of and compare those dates to.
D) As an artifact and as it keeps the portal open, maybe use of the Planar Gate maintains the connection.
Tim Brown just yesterday basically said the Living Vortices are a half-a$$ explanation for Templars as âsome explanation is always better than none.â
We donât know anything for sure, but since it isnât stated anywhere, we canât make any assumptions that move away from the status-quo.
That said, my own hypothesis moves us away from canon, which says that Balican templars do not get spells after the disappearance of Andropinis. That is why my post carries the label âheresyâ. It is possible that Rajaatâs banishment of Andropinis also included blocking the elemental vortex. If anyone could do it, Rajaat could.
Agreed. That was my thinking too. As for Dregoth, thereâs no suggestion anywhere in CbtSS that New Giustenal and his Templarate have made do without spells during his frequent absences. To my mind, that say Dregoth could still grant spells. Admittedly thatâs an absence of evidence rather than evidence of absence.
However, it suggests that either, as @The_DMs_Revenge suggests, the Planar Gate maintains the connection, or Rajaat bound Andropinis as I suggested, or a 3rd, unknown event/option arises.
I go with the Planar Gate maintains the connection. When the Planar Gate is used, it makes a constant portal to a single plane. If it is used to dial a new plane, it breaks the connection and you may be trapped on that plane forever.
The Planar travel used for the Black and the Grey are doors that open to let you through, then close behind you, open to let you out, then close behind you.
One of Andropinisâs goals is to build a constant connection so he can gets his templars spells again. He isnât interested in physically returning, but he still has an interest in Athas itself. I have done a future timeline adventure where he had successfully created the Shadow Gate that made some pretty scary templars.
In Legends of Athas, thereâs an Epic Banishment spell that adds a compulsion not to leave the plane you were banished to. When Rajaat banished him, he did a similar spell, just more powerful in my games.
Andropinis doesnât WANT to leave the Black because the spell prevents him from wanting to. It didnât modify his interest in the Tyr region, his city, his people, or any of his goals, he just canât figure out why heâd want to do any of those things in person, so he doesnât. He comes up with various excuses why he doesnât want to (in his own mind) or why itâs better to have it done by someone else. The kicker is he knows a spell was cast that means he canât leave but he has an apathy toward solving that problem because he doesnât really want to leave anyway.
Thereâs another component to the spell where even if he physically canât travel outside the Black. Once had a Shadow Wizard that tried to move a gate over Andropinis, the portal passed right through him without any effect.
Perhaps he needs to be near his vortex to make this happen. Dregoth Ascendingâs original TSR draft (and the Athas.org version) had shown that vortices were capturable and possibly can be taken away from a living or dead SM. Of course in typical 2E fashion they wrote it so that THE PCâs could never capture the Living Vortex (so they cannot use it to become SMâs).
In my Mindmage Ascendancy campaign, Androponis is still alive and imprisoned in the Black but Balic has an new SM. The Sorcerer-Queen Calista, an descendant of Androponis will occasionally contact him for information and give him information as to the current state of Athas. It is likely that she has somehow wrenched Androponisâ vortex from him.
In Balic, a new Sorcerer-Queen, Calista (21st lvl Dragon if you use 2E or 3E) has emerged, violently toppling the Trade Lords, confiscating their wealth and reestablished the templar order twenty years after Androponisâ disappearance (FY31 or 190/56). Some keen observers have surmised that there is a connection between Andropinis and Calista as she seems to know of things long past, but no one has yet figured out why this is.
Or she could just be using Androponisâ vortex with his permission. In Rise and Fall of a Dragon King, Hamanu claims that Kalak is not a champion and does not have a vortex of his own. Instead, he uses Sacha and Wyan to funnel power to his templars.
Yup, but this really never made any sense, since regardless if Kalak was killed or not, Tyrâs templars would have never lost their powers since Sacha and Wyan were very much âaliveâ. It also doesnt correlate with the Prism Pentad.
I initially had it that she was using his vortex, but a dragon would more likely steal it, that share it.
What have people done for the Templars of Tec in Draj with the same problem? With Tec being killed do you think it possible Templars with their already obsession of the moons might turn to elemental magical and usurp that as clerics of air or sun. To regain some spell casting abilities or at least a semblance of what they previously had?
Iâd say that the moons are the elemental equivalent of âfalse idolsâ. If I recall correctly, Tec was the son of the moons in his state theology.
Elemental clerics are pretty weird dudes. They are âin the world, but not of the worldâ. If the templars of Tec took up elementalism en masse, it would fundamentally change their outlook.
For the âchannelingâ of anotherâs Vortex, I handle it with a ritual that would kill most beings. Tithian could not have survived it so did not undergo the ritual, they also were using that power as incentive to free Rajaat.
I went a slightly different way with Draj templars, specifically being trained under the House of the Mind as part of their deal that puts Templars into a prestige class thatâs a combination of Divine Mind abilities on an Ur Priest chassis. Since I also modify all the Templar PRCs to be accessible by psions and wizards and gain levels of a previous class itâs less of a leap.
I seem to remember the sun clerics of Kled being an organized group worshiping the sun⌠may be itâs not too far a stretch to have moon-worshiping templars of a deceased SK have some desire to least look into it. There would have to be some significant adaptation by a templar to now worship an element. That is, if the elemental spirits want them.
Additionally per EAFW âThe twin moons of Athas are considered friends of the sun clerics, and sun clerics know that the moons reflect their patronâs light. Moonlight is not strong enough, however,
to allow spell recharging.and that the paraelement of sunâ
It didnât take long for the templars to clean up in the wake of the storm or for King Atzetuk to assuage the fears of his citizens. He called for sacrifices to appease the elementals, and the Draji approved.
So there was at least some attempt to have the elements happy.
Iâve done the same that I did for almost all of the SMâs that were killed in the PP. I brought them back just a few months after the events of the PP concluded. The exceptions were Kalak and Androponis.
Kalak because he was killed during the meta ritual and Androponis because he is imprisoned. Even borys is back.