Nibenay-435 (The thread formerly known as KA164: Desert's Vengeance)

The following is a direct excerpt of canon events in the published timeline:

“Despite their power, the children of Rajaat cannot destroy his mortal remains. Instead, Gallard separates the First Sorcerer’s essence from his physical form, placing each in a separate location. Aided by the power of the Dark Lens, Gallard creates the Hollow, where he placed Rajaat’s essence. Gallard then creates a cyst of enchanted stone called the Black Sphere in which he places Rajaat’s substance. He then hides the Black Sphere in a location known only to him and Borys of Ebe.”

According to canon, Gallard and the Dark Lens are the reasons why Rajaat is imprisoned; he succeeded in that alone after everyone else failed to destroy Rajaat. I infer from this that Gallard carried the other Champions before they rebelled and then through their rebellion. ‘Shadow King’ isn’t because he’s recently withdrawn, ‘Shadow King’ is because he’s been calling shots since before Rajaat was deposed. He chose Borys to be Rajaat’s watchdog.

Just something I noticed because of reading that timeline thread (which didn’t want to derail with this).

Gallard >>>> All

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Very interesting

That’s an interpretation of that text, yeah. But Gallard could have simply been the most accomplished at planar or shadow magic (Shadow King), making him the one to be successful at trapping Rajaat.

But now i kinda want to see a campaign where Nibenay is calling the shots all over the Tablelands and is revealed to be the true big-bad after the Dragon is slain. :thinking: As in, he manipulated the other SMs into taking out Dregoth and Kalid-Ma, pushed Selbia into pissing off Hamanu, and tipped off Nok about Kalak’s upcoming transformation. :star_struck:

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IDK if I was aware of that timeline passage in the 90’s but it does feel like supporting evidence from canon that ‘Nibenay is the best Sorcerer Monarch’ wasn’t just my opinion.

That’s basically my take on going post PP but not using PP at all. I know how I view the Alt Revised Start but not 100% on how to get from my slightly altered OG start to my revised start. I say that like I want to run a game but as I get older, the more I doubt my ability to. Doesn’t stop me from playing or worldbuilding as a thought exercise.

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Oh, yeah, I wouldn’t say its “just your opinion”, but one of the best things about the writing in Dark Sun is how well they managed to write well-developed and interesting facts without including reasons or conclusions, so that a passage of text was open to being used to support multiple conclusions and opinions.

If a person really wanted to, they could twist the meaning of that quoted passage (without changing any of the quoted words) to support a psurlon-led conspiracy or whatever.

The passage suggests Gallard was the best SM/Champion, but doesn’t blatantly say that, and that is perhaps Dark Sun’s greatest strength as a body of writing and a setting. And I :heart: it. :smiley:

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^^I didn’t want to hijack that thread with this, the info below is also my starting point for a ‘shot-caller Gallard’ vision of Nibenay.

Ok, so I hadn’t seen the Population of Athas PDF prior to 8/28 but have been sitting down with maps and a bunch of crop, forestry and mining stats for the past couple of weeks after being inspired by this thread. Admittedly, I hadn’t thought of growth and was only looking at calculating capacity.

Basic Assumptions

  1. 1kg of Nibenese Rice is sufficient daily food for a man-sized avian/biped/lizard or Kreen; Half-Giants need 4x more; Halflings need 4x less
  2. Every workable (as defined by Gallard; see below) hectare in the ~182k hectares of ‘rural Nibenay’ is worked by a total of 82 252 serfs since Gallard is a control freak who values efficiency and organization.
  3. Gallard is ‘longview greedy’. He’s no hyper destructive moron, he knows sustainability has to be maintained because immortality will suck royally if ash is all that’s left to rule. Access to Psionic Enchantments and True Dweomers leads me to believe that it isn’t hard for Gallard to enforce sustainability within ‘rural Nibenay’.
  4. Corruption is kept to a minimum since Nibenay is most assuredly a surveillance state.

I feel comfortable calling 800k-1,000,000 the ‘Nibenese Capacity’ and decided that (at my table) Nibenay has a population of 888,252.

6 500 Hectares of Farmland Taxed @ 60% is 19 500 000 kg of Nibenese Rice to seasonal Land Tax obligations from the rural Nibenese Crescent Forest

91 000 Hectares of Farmland Taxed @ 60% is 136 500 000 kg of Nibenese Rice to seasonal Land Tax obligations from the rural Nibenese Scrub Plains

45 500 Hectares of Farmland Taxed @ 60% is 136 500 000 kg of Nibenese Rice to seasonal Land Tax obligations from the rural Nibenese Verdant Belts

This is 292 500 000 kg of Nibenese Rice per season, following assumption #1, this carries a man-sized population of 2 340 000 through a 125 day season.

This also leaves a total of 57 200 Hectares to be farmed as the ‘landowners’ like and only be taxed at 40% but only if transfer of ownership occurs.

If 5% of the seasonal gross goes directly to feeding all the serfs who work all of the apportioned Lands that leaves 95% to be collected by the Templarate in Land Tax obligations giving them 279 314 500 kg each season. They will use 56 484 500 kg of this to feed the Templarate and slaves of Gallard through the season. This leaves 222 830 000 kg to stock the Templarate Bank Granaries (easily enough to support a population of 1 782 640). Or it would be if 10% wasn’t lost to hoarding (an extra 22 283 000 kg kept by the Templarate and their cronies) and 10% of what’s left of that was lost to pests and spoilage leaving 180 492 300 kg to actually make it to market each season. Enough to feed a population of 1 443 938 man-sized bipeds through the season. Which is why I say that 800,000-1,000,000 is a safe capacity that leaves buffer room for High Sun crop reductions or other less natural famines.

This doesn’t even touch on the Agafari logging camps or the Copper/Laterite mines, trust me when I say there’re Nibenese billionaires (and I beat that PHBR6 mining table with a nerf bat).

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Okay, so I assumed that it’d take 2 days for 16 Half-Giants to process a tagged Agafari Tree to a log of Agafari Timber. If 60% of production goes to the Templarate for Land Tax obligations, that’s 5 of the 8 Agafari Trees the camp will produce daily (do you really want to argue with the Templarate over a fraction of a tree?). The camp owners will receive their 10 741 300 Bead subsidy & 3 Agafari Trees of Raw Timber daily.

This gives the Templarate 120 Agafari Trees stripped down to Raw Timber every day @ 233m3 per tree that’s 27 960m3 of Agafari Timber daily and that accounts for all of the Nibenese logging camps.

I approached the mines from a daily production perspective as well. At first, I looked at the PHBR6 mining tables and decided to swap copper and iron. I wanted Copper to be the predominant metal and decided that Nibenay was on top of/near hydrothermal deposits. I looked up stats on Chalcocite, Galena and Sphalerite and chose Cadmium, Iron, Lead, Silver & Zinc as the ‘impurities’ in their veins. I leaned into Lead, with Cadmium and Zinc as a filler and traces of Iron and Silver. I rebuilt that mining table with the above metals slotted in place of the existing ones and then randomized the 21 possible mines in the area of the ‘rural Nibenese Windbreaks’ (remember: we’re assuming that Gallard is enforcing the productivity of his land through Psionic Enchanments/True Dweomers). The numbers that came out of the first iteration amounted to tons of metal introduced daily. Athas is metal poor, it can’t have those kinds of numbers, so I reduced them to a ‘more Athasian’ number and it still gave huge numbers using the mining formula presented with the mining tables. So rather than yield/miner/day, I changed it to yield/mine/day while keeping the production rate cited for hard stone (which coincidentally is ~1m3) to minimize productivity. I assumed that a fully staffed mine would require 2048 serfs working 2 12 hour shifts with half the shift mining while the other half hauls out. This works out to 1024m3 of extracted materials per mine per day; assume all of that is Laterite and add a 1m3 payload which holds all of the ore plus the remaining cm3 of the m3 in Laterite. If 60% of the materials output go to the Templarate, they receive daily:

13,173,262kg Laterite, 9240 grams Cadmium, 62820 grams Copper, 3130 grams Iron, 26900 grams Lead, 807 grams Silver, 18660 grams Zinc

The Templarate will use the Laterite to make bricks for roads and decorative stonework buildings; the Cadmium to decorate those buildings with crimson glaze; the Copper and Zinc to make Brass tools and weapons; the Lead and Silver is made into Currency.

If the Templarate issues currency in exchange for all of the materials collected daily through Land Tax obligations, that’s 390,302,108 Beads in total issued daily to the Houses that own the logging camps and mines.

I have started to work out which Houses own what and how they are related to the Templarate (the nepotism is real in Nibenay) with an overall view of House names and holdings spread across Dwarves, Half-Giants and Humans. I want to step through the whole of Nibenay from extraction to processing by the local merchants to export by the Dynastic merchants

I also updated my population numbers given I forgot that Dynastic Merchant Houses aren’t counted in City-State censuses. I adjusted it up by 22,728 to account for members of each house in varying amounts (excluding Stel)

Population: 910,980 (62% Human [569 318], 13% Half-Giant [121 190], 11% Dwarves [103 325], 5.5% Elf [50 863], 5.4% Mul [49 797], 0.96% Half-Elf [8 778], 0.4% Halfling [3 995], 0.07% Thri-Kreen [714]; Social Class Demographic 0.1% Templarate, 2.4% Dynastic Resident Foreigners, 2.7% Gentry, 7% Merchant, 9% Serf, 25.5% Freemen, 53.3% Slave)

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Good work. Someone could probably argue with the assumptions, but they cannot argue with the canon descriptions of Nibenay that led you to these assumptions. The population of Nibenay and environs at almost a million seems right.

What did you mean about using psionic enchantment for productivity though?

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Well, I haven’t done more than toss the thoughts around in my mind but I am of the opinion that Psionic Enchantments need an overhaul to be brought more into line with True Dweomers as they are presented in the DM’s Options: High-Level Campaigns book.

Psionic Enchantments were released prior to True Dweomers and have significantly higher casting requirements but have mediocre results by comparision.

Consider that TD can be cast by a single-classed spellcasting character who achieves 20th level while PE require you to have achieved 20th level in two separate classes. IMHO, TD should pale in comparision to PE but by canon they’re in the same general ballpark.

If we look at TD as a start for rebuilding PE as actual 10th level spells that require ‘10th level psionic enhancement’ then take the different types of TD available and extrapolate them into the different Disciplines, we can devise ways to apply the ‘psionic enhancements’ to the base True Dweomers, thus creating ‘Psionic Enchantments’

Take Prolific Vegetation for example, 30 days of prep to a create a field of vegetation 180 yards across and that’s after spending a lifetime accumulating the XP for 20th in 2 classes. A 20th level caster with a True Dweomer slot could do the same with an Afflict/Create spell (create the vegetation and afflict it with indeterminate growth) and with much less time investment required.

Hell, if you add a Ward effect, you could make the area impervious to Defiling. IDK how long the Prep or Casting times would be but that’s another reason why I think PE and TD need reconciled.

Imagine if you will, that Nibenay is at the center of an effect such as ‘Manifest Matter’ an effect that causes the land it is cast upon to have the ability to regenerate any harvested materials within a reasonable period of time. If you harvest some materials, they will be replenished within the season if not the month but they don’t grow in such a way as to create problems for the City-State (the spell isn’t pushing the Windbreaks down on the city, but it is allowing them to be mined daily with no sign of depletion).

As a headsup, I nearly have a complete list of the Gentry of Nibenay and their holdings. If it isn’t posted today, it will be tomorrow.

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As promised.

I am only happy with the names of the Dwarven Houses of Gentry. I have placeholders for the Half-Giant and Human Houses of Gentry (adjectives transliterated from Vietnamese and randomized Edo period surnames respectively) but am unsure of what to replace them with. There are some Houses that could do with a bit more elaboration but that will come.

Polygamy is the Nibenese cultural standard per canon and as the whole of the Templarate are Gallard’s wives; they serve as political connections for not only their parents and siblings but their other husbands as well. The Templarate is one large web of property rights connections between Gallard and largely the Houses of Gentry with a fair amount of representation from Freemen families (there are enough to encourage the Freemen families to continue to present their daughters).

The Houses of Gentry are those who manage the lands of Nibenay for Gallard. They are allowed to claim ownership of the profits derived so long as they meet their Land Tax obligations in a timely manner. There are different benefits to owning different types of land in Nibenay. Logging Camps and Mines provide materials to sell or use and currency to hoard or purchase materials with. Owning a farm will entitle the owner to a seasonal subsidy in exchange for their 60% Land Tax obligations and a Burden Waiver. Entities that own multiple farms will receive multiple Burden Waivers that can be distributed as they see fit.

Burden Waivers are non-transferrable (once assigned), seasonal assignments doled out by a designated Head of House for the owning entity. They allow the Bearer to pass Nibenese Tolls equal to their gate value without paying and grant them access to the Waiver Market Auction Floor.

The Nibenese Houses of Gentry (listed by number of Farms managed):

–Copper Tier–
House Naamek owns 227 Farms (200 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains & 27 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & 2 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Devout, focused agricultural aristocrats. Naamek daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Earth specifically). Naamek sons will likely join the church with great devotion to Earth. Naamek is not an aggressive House but dutiful in pursuit of their civic responsibilities. They have accumulated the largest collection of seasonal Burden Waivers having a near singular focus on agricultural development. They are staunch supporters of the Nibenese State and their contributions are well rewarded by Gallard.

House Arai owns 113 Farms (110 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 3 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. They are the descendants of an esteemed general that served Gallard during the Cleansing Wars. Arai daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Order specifically). Arai sons will likely join the Nibenese Volunteers or perform freelance mercenary work for Shom. As a family, they have long sought to prove their continued relevance in the face of Dwarven and Half-Giant competition.

–Ceramic Tier–
House Yêu owns 79 Farms (73 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 6 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts), a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest & a Mine in the Nibenese Windbreaks. They are direct matrilinear descendants of the very first Half-Giants (at least by this perspective). Decadent old money, they’re examples of all that is wrong with unchecked excess. They’re not especially helpful but neither do they actively get in the way. They appear to be permanently fixed in their position for their initial contributions to the long-term successes of Gallard (the seed population of Half-Giants). The original Yêu matriarch forbade her daughters from joining the Templarate and most still abide by this though it has become traditional that Yêu daughters born during a year of Slumber will be State educated and offered for courtship (Yêu daughters have never not been courted by Gallard). Yêu sons are feckless dandies, raised in opulence and given to hedonism and sloth.

House Ujie owns 70 Farms (67 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 3 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Mine in the Nibenese Windbreaks. They are also the descendants of an esteemed general that served Gallard during the Cleansing Wars. Ujie daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Water specifically). Ujie sons will likely be educated by the Ancestor Temple or the School of Augurs. There are acclaimed combatants among them who draw added crowds when they compete in the Gladiatorial Coliseum.

House Khemek owns 55 Farms (51 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 4 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & 2 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. They’re ancient nobility with peerless metallurgical knowledge. Khemek daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Water specifically). Khemek sons will likely sell their expertise on the open market, finding steady income wherever metal is used. They don’t shy from combat when necessary but will generally not seek it out.

House Kamei owns 50 Farms (39 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 11 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Mine in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Yet another brood of descendants memorializing a favored general of the Cleansing Wars. Kamei daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Kamei sons will likely join the Ancestor Temple or the Nibenese Volunteers. House Kamei has made a number of significant contributions in the past several years.

–Bit Tier–
House Kynang owns 44 Farms (41 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 3 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & 2 Logging Camps in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. They are Freemen Half-Giants elevated to the Gentry more than 1200 years ago after a number of decades of consistent performances in the School of Augurs. Kynang daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Order specifically). Kynang sons are heavily involved with the Mercantile districts though many have also gone on to become Teachers in the School of Augurs. House Kynang is ambitious but not to a detrimental extent.

House Caesek owns 36 Farms (28 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 8 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts), a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest & 4 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Devout, focused stonemason aristocrats. Caesek daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Earth specifically). Caesek sons will likely sell their expertise on the open market, finding steady income wherever stonework is needed. There are numerous military engineers among them along with a few Road Maintenance Cooperatives.

House Nijo owns 35 Farms (25 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 10 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Yet another brood of descendants memorializing a favored general of the Cleansing Wars. Nijo daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Nijo sons are nearly evenly divided among the Ancestor Temple, Nibenese Volunteers and the School of Augurs.

House Ando owns 23 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 13 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. They are one more in the string of families memorializing a cherished bastard of the Cleansing Wars. Ando daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Fire specifically). Ando sons will involve themselves in mercantile pursuits most likely with a smaller number choosing to join the Nibenese Volunteers.

House Takeya owns 23 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 13 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. As with nearly all of the human Houses of Gentry, Takeya memorializes a Cleansing War general who served Gallard. Takeya daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Order specifically). Takeya sons will likely join the Ancestor Temple or the School of Augurs. They’re not cowards but they actively pursue positions of social importance more so than those of military importance.

House Danh owns 21 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 11 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & 4 Logging Camps in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Serf lumberjacks, elevated just under 400 years ago to ease tensions in the growing Nibenese Half-Giant population. They are simple, hardworking folk who have a disproportionate amount of wealth given their demeanors. Danh daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Water specifically). Danh sons are encouraged to keep to the old ways, though the youth are increasingly leaning into behaviors modeled by their Kynang neighbors.

House Mori owns 20 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 10 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Cleansing War bastard memorial. Mori daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Mori sons are encouraged to join the Nibenese Volunteers or the School of Augurs.

House Tanbao owns 19 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 9 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Slave-soldiers, elevated just under 400 years ago to ease tensions in the growing Nibenese Half-Giant population. They are cruel adherents of a strict code of honor who maintain an active stance within the Nibenese Volunteers (some would say that they are the backbone of the Volunteers). Tanbao daughters must be State educated and courted for the Templarate (Temple of Fire specifically), otherwise keeping a leash on the sons is exceedingly resource intensive.

House Kuki owns 18 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 8 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Mine in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Cleansing War bastard memorial. Kuki daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Kuki sons will be encouraged to mercantile endeavors, though some choose the Ancestor Temple.

House Gaanhaur owns 17 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 7 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts), a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest & 2 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Ancient proletariat weaponsmiths, they were made into Gentry when they accepted peace with Gallard and settled in Nibenay. Gaanhaur daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Fire specifically). Gaanhaur sons will make bank selling weapons made from the various materials they’ve access to. They’re dutiful and focused on the pursuit of their ancestral crafts.

House Nagao owns 17 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 7 Farms in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Cleansing War bastard memorial. Nagao daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Nagao sons are closely involved with the Gladiatorial Coliseum, owning a significant portion of the Training Stables.

House Taanhaur owns 15 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 5 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts), a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest & 2 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Ancient proletariat armorsmiths, they became Gentry when Gaanhaur did. Taanhaur daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Fire specifically). Taanhaur sons will only work for the Templarate as a matter of House honor. The products they create will go to the Templarate, who will sell any surpluses on the Waiver Market.

House Gosankyo owns 15 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 5 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Mine in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Cleansing War bastard memorial. Gosankyo daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Fire specifically). Gosankyo sons are a common sight in the Mercantile districts and the Gladiatorial Coliseum being avid patrons. They don’t participate personally, but are vociferous proponents of their combatant property.

House Nasu owns 14 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 4 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. They are the descendants of the original ruling family of Nibenay (not that they actively remember this). Nasu daughters are found in every division of the Templarate, but are given exclusively urban assignments. Nasu sons are heavily involved with the Plain of Burning Waters; they’re the ancestral custodians of the Waters. They continue to fulfill these duties and are guaranteed a House in Nibenay.

House Chuyen owns 14 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 4 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. Freeman artisans, elevated just under 400 years ago. They are sculptors of clay, stone and wood who have eyes for precision and beauty. They’ve had a hand in decorating Nibenay since before their elevation to Gentry. Chuyen daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Air specifically). Chuyen sons rub elbows with their Kynang neighbors and continue to invest in the beautification of Nibenese architecture and landscape.

House Doi owns 13 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 3 Farms in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & a Logging Camp in the Nibenese Crescent Forest. They are descended from the merchant house that was in residence here in Nibenay when Gallard settled here. House Doi already had several structures in the vicinity of what became urban Nibenay. These structures were grandfathered into Nibenese building codes. Doi daughters are found in every division of the Templarate, but are given exclusively urban assignments. Doi no longer owns as much of the urban area as they once did but they do administer it for the Templarate. Doi sons will find themselves involved in something that doesn’t require leaving Nibenay.

House Danhek owns 11 Farms (10 in the Nibenese Scrub Plains, 1 in the Nibenese Verdant Belts) & 4 Mines in the Nibenese Windbreaks. Skilled, focused miner aristocrats. Danhek daughters will be State educated and likely courted for the Templarate (Temple of Earth specifically). Danhek sons will likely join the Nibenese Volunteers. Especially recently, there’s been a literally unspeakable scandal within the past 30 years. The Dwarven Houses of Gentry have collectively paid School of Augurs for the precise knowledge of the event to be annulled without erasing the memory of the shame. Danhek may keep their Burden Waivers and 10% of their income, the remainder being divided in equal shares to the other Dwarven Houses of Gentry to repay the debt of their shame.

I need to further develop their precise holdings but I want to get all of the landowners sorted before detailing the farms of each House (I already have the mines detailed). I plan on stepping through the Merchant class next. I imagine them as being the Nibenese Freemen allowed to incorporate under the sponsorship of House Shom (remembering that members of the Dynastic Merchant Houses aren’t citizens of any City-State). Shom is, in effect, the bronze age mega-corp that takes a cut of Nibenese local business as well as facilitating commerce with the rest of the Tablelands.

Goodness. Some in-depth work here by the Athasian Laborer. And clearly he has a passion for all things Nibenese, as do I. Whatever might be said of his work, surely some thoughtful labors here, which I much appreciate.

I am fascinated by your figure of 910,980 people in greater Nibenay. 121,190 half-giants! Tremendous. Though I too am an advocate of greatly enhanced population numbers for our favorite seven cities, you go farther than me sir.

But I am interested in the implied other work you have done on Nibenay. You list Houses of Gentry. Have you built a tiered hierarchy of nobles and social classes? If you have, I would be interested in seeing it.

I was also interested in your choice of naming conventions. The Khmer Empire is, most certainly, the heart of the inspiration for Nibenay as we know it, though Denning’s narrative definitely emphasizes the Indianized element of medieval Cambodian culture. I was thinking of opening a thread on Nibenese culture, but perhaps we can use this one. I wish to explore more deeply what I understand of Nibenese culture, and would like to add to and polish existing canon, which ultimately is fairly sparse. Questions arise about just how much I should port from medieval Khmer society, but these necessarily imply deeper and more… troublesome and even troubling questions. Why should Athasian society so closely mirror ancient cultures of Earth, and why do these exist in such close proximity to each other in the Tablelands? These types of questions have been asked by others before, but I think I would like to explore them more publicly here on these forums. It would be more seemly to have a unified historical explanation for the development of these cultures, as such would make it easier to provide fascinating deep legends to bring some of the city states more to life.

Perhaps I shall start bit more with Nibenay…

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What you see above is the most organized of my thoughts on the nobility and social classes of Nibenay. I had started to explore how they were interconnected; tying into the various Temples of the Templarate, reading more on mandala political model and then real life drew my attention elsewhere.

Yeah, I have long held that Nibenay was a patchwork of asian influences and not just Medieval Cambodia but whenever I suggest things that aren’t 100% Khmer, I find that someone will tell me that I am wrong because it isn’t 100% Khmer. Is the City-State called Nibenay or Angkor Wat?

I do have some notes on history regarding the non-human Houses of Gentry. Everything is built from the perspective of “If I were Gallard, how would I organize my acquired City-State and defend it from Borys’ rampage”. In my perspective, Gallard offered shelter to some of the dwarven remnant as a slight to Borys and is also solely responsible for the creation of the Half-Giants as a race. This is where the non-human Gentry come from, the human Gentry are the descendents of favored generals during the Cleansing Wars (or the local Merchant House prior to Shom).

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Ha. We mustn’t be allowed to stay in Wonderland over long, good sir.

Well put sir. Presuming many of the cultures of the Seven Cities were imported from more distant parts of the world and transplanted to the Tablelands, we must likewise presume that much cultural mixing has taken place. The civilizations beneath the transplants must surely have had their effect, and we presume the sorcerer-kings brought with them eclectic armies, and not mono-cultures, as they presumably fought their target races all across the world, and would have recruited from many lands. And more than this, in the centuries since, changes would have developed, even if the walls were completely sealed. Adding to this would have been the cultural imports brought upon by invading armies, captured slaves, and the regular influence of merchants, mercenaries and travelers.

It is the result of all this, and each DM’s individual take on it, that is difficult and yet very interesting. These cultures are rich and fascinating in their own right, but to me the campaign setting demands a heavily modified and yet very nuanced and tasteful approach to implementing these real-world cultures in game. Much work is needed to accomplish this, for indeed Nibenay should not be but a port of the Mexica.

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If you look above, you’ll see that I designated almost all of the House of Gentry as being “Cleansing War Bastard Memorials”. I included two houses as being the former rulers of Nibenay and their merchant cronies. I chose to assume that the Ancestral Cult of Nibenay is a hold-over from pre-Gallard times, dating back to the original foundations of the urban area now called Nibenay.

This is why those two houses are allowed to continue even though Gallard and Shom have displaced them, to please the dead of ages older than Gallard himself.

I also added a personal touch as a result of this line of thought: Bone Weapons are heavily regulated, since to claim a Bone Weapon from the bones of those who would object it’s use as a weapon would bring a curse upon the weapon bearer. Slaves aren’t given this regard and there are spells for determining the class of the bone when it was alive.

In complete honesty, this project of mine was intended to build Nibenay from the foundation up so that I could simulate 2000+ years of boom and bust to have a clearer and more realistic economy. Start with Nibenay and then cycle through the City-States until there’s a complete economic simulation of the Tablelands.