More Heresy: No, Oronis is not an avangion

[phaaf_glien]

Interesting points. I suppose keeping the Levy filled is perhaps the driving force behind the remaining Champions’ lives, aside from their continued metamorphosis. There is no excuse. No matter how hard, how costly, how extreme, it absolutely must be maintained. And the Dragon will force it if he must. And even if he didn’t, all the Champions know what would happen if they failed. The Levy must be paid, as sure as death and taxes.

As to the Dragon taking soul-power from elsewhere, well beyond the known city-states, I speculate that any remaining states of any standing have the requirement of the Levy as well.

I’m not sure what the total price was each year. If we rate by level, I could see Rajaat’s imprisonment costing 40,000 HD worth of intelligent life a year, if we hold Rajaat at 40th level wizard. This is a complete guess. By the time of the Prism Pentad, perhaps 20-25K intelligent HD were to be provided by any surviving cities from across the world, with the rest coming from the ravages of the Dragon from across his realm, which seems to have been the entirety of the Tablelands, north, south, east and west, and beyond.

[WingofCoot]

@phaaf_glien

Appearing before Kurn, he might have kept the other SKs waiting upon Oronis’ non-acknowledgment, and have demanded before the gates of the city the appearance of its sorcerer-king. When no one arrived as demanded, he might have leveled the city right then and there, taking all its life force to feed the Prison, and to serve as an object lesson to the remaining SKs: defiance is not an option. The threat from Tithian possessing the Dark Lens, and the possibility (however slim) that Rajaat might be freed was very serious. ALL known remaining Champions of sound mind were required. No dissent would or could be tolerated.

I don’t think it would have been a smart move for him to do that at that time.

Any time spent dealing with that is time the Lens is getting closer to Rajaat’s prison. And what if Oronis pulled something unknown that actually hurt Borys, or at least made him burn resources that he then wouldn’t have against Rajaat?

@phaaf_glien

Indeed, the only way Oronis makes sense at all is if New Kurn is totally shielded somehow, and probably very clevelry to avoid Borys’ suspicion, and his own avangion nature being completely hidden. To me, only with all his power and cleverness, utilized flawlessly to the nth degree, could Oronis have pulled this off for 500 years.

I think it’s definitely very hidden, but I’m less sure that doing so required extreme cleverness. Valley of Dust and Fire talks about how the Dragon has become less and less involved in Ur Draxa over the last several centuries; it’s possible that his sanity is unraveling. That would honestly make his death more plausible.

@phaaf_glien

Indeed, Borys’ authority over the SKs was not absolute in that they were utterly servile to him. They greatly respect and fear Borys, if only for his power, but I do recall Androponis telling Tithian that even if the Dragon himself ordered his fleet out, that he would defy him in the circumstances Tithian originally presented to him. When summoned to Samarrah, the SKs came because they obeyed their commander, but indeed also because most of them surely had some understanding of the shared threat. Oronis not showing up would have been a threat of its own kind. Why wouldn’t he show up, in such grave circumstances?

Oh, I think Borys would absolutely have asked that question, but I think he would have tabled it for after the immediate crisis was dealt with.

Unless his mind really was slipping, in which case he might not always have remembered Daskinor and Oronis existed (especially if whatever Daskinor did to chase him off scared him that badly, that he sort of suppressed the knowledge).

[quote=“phaaf_glien, post:20, topic:4753”]
Though it is wrong to think the SKs or even the Dragon were omniscient, given the great cost of the Levy, a lie from Borys that the two northern cities were no longer paying their share because they had been destroyed would have been uncovered I think soon enough. And besides, given his awesome power, I doubt much Borys would have stooped to lie about such a thing. Oronis may have shielded New Kurn, but not Old Kurn, which surely had to have been his source of the Levy.
[/quote]

I don’t see why it would have been uncovered, or why Old Kurn couldn’t have been warded as well.

The Dark Lens was sufficiently warded to hide it for ages. The Last Sea possibly similarly. Secrets of the Dead Lands talks about wards being used to hide the destruction of Nagarvos. This sort of thing does happen in the setting.

[quote=“phaaf_glien, post:20, topic:4753”]
The Levy must have been of great importance to each city: a huge, never-ending, and extremely costly annual endeavor. Any “exemptions” on the Levy would have surely been unacceptable to the SKs, almost regardless of the reason.
[/quote]

Oh, known exceptions, I largely agree. But if they simply assumed the cities dead and gone, like Kalidnay and Yaramuke, there’d be no issue.

[quote=“phaaf_glien, post:21, topic:4753”]
As to the Dragon taking soul-power from elsewhere, well beyond the known city-states, I speculate that any remaining states of any standing have the requirement of the Levy as well.
[/quote]

I think the implication of the Anattan Coast gazetteer is that the Dragon took tribute from there, but largely in materials rather than lives?

[LibraryOgre]

@WingofCoot

Any time spent dealing with that is time the Lens is getting closer to Rajaat’s prison. And what if Oronis pulled something unknown that actually hurt Borys, or at least made him burn resources that he then wouldn’t have against Rajaat?

This would be me. If he was still thinking of Keltis (and Daskinor), he would get back to them later, but the potential cost of going after them during the Cerulean Storm would be way too high, especially if he hadn’t been keeping abreast of what was going on there… if he had information to work on, he might have risked it, but if the information wasn’t good (current, trustworthy, etc.), it simply might have not been worth it.