Pathfinder Sorcerer chassis for templar

I did my own version of the templar base class to try to beef up the templars a bit. I posted it on another thread. Recently I have been looking at Pathfinder for ideas, and discovered the pathfinder sorcerer.

The pathfinder sorcerer has bloodlines, bloodline spells, and bloodline feats, taken from the associated bloodline. These can easily be adapted for a templar. Instead of bloodlines, they are based on the Sorcerer Monarch and associated spells and feats. I think its a better option than the Dark Sun Core Rules version, and my version as well. It obviates the need for the prestige classes for the templars that are city specific, although perhaps some of the abilities can be integrated into the base class.

Yeah, maybe - depending how you feel about BAB progression. But, perhaps a dip into Fighter would make more sense for “Warrior/ priest” type templars…

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Medium BAB and saving throws would have to conform ro the regular templar.

That is balanced by the terrible spell list that the Templars have.

Mmmm, sure. I don’t know that the Templar spell list is terrible, but its certainly not as blast-y as Wizard/Sorcerer.

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You can see people discuss the tier for templar here. Back in 2E, templar was the best divine spellcasting class. Now they are the worst.

Umm, they’re pitching Templar is tier 2, and Gladiator & Bard are tier ~4/5. My understanding is the a lower tier number is better, not worse.

Also: Pffft, the opinions of folks on the internet…


Tier 1 is best. Tier 5 is worst.

Templar Tally: Tier 3, Tier 2. Looking like high Tier 3 or low Tier 2, … the spellcasting is the key point here.

So, once again, as a Tier 2-3 (the 2nd/3rd best ranking of classes, in their opinion), I’m not clear on how that link supports your previous statement:

Now, whatever - have an opinion about the spellcasting list for Templars, that’s fine. I’m just not getting your logic here.

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OK. We are talking at cross purposes. Let me explain.

Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer - all tier 1. They are the most powerful classes.

3.5e templar is a high tier 3 or low tier 2. Borderline. In 2E they were even better than regular clerics!

What I am saying is that templars could use a little boost to at least bring them up to the higher part of tier 2.

Because spellcasting is the templar’s primary class feature and the templar spell list dictates what it can do with that spell casting, what is on the list determines the tier of the templar class. I tried to resolve it by giving the templar some extra oomph in my homebrew version. but I was never truly happy with the outcome.

The pathfinder sorcerer chassis (with BAB, saving throws and HP adjusted) presents an elegant way of depicting templars, boosting them up a bit, and also making them unique to each city state via “bloodlines” that are refluffed.

Well, that at makes sense. Idk, the spell list could use work, but the addition of 2 domains does help it out. And getting 4 (vs 2) skill points per level does a fair amount for a skill heavy character like the Templar.

As i said before though, PF sorcerer bloodlines could be a cool way to do the SM-specific abilities.

That being said, remember that PF is a bit overpowered vs 3.5e.

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Agreed. The problem as I see it is that the templar, even my templar, has every incentive to take a prestige class and very little incentive to remain in the base class. I think the pathfinder sorcerer bloodlines balance out pretty well (see analysis here) because even though you get feats and the 3.5 sorcerer gets none, it is from a limited list and it is hard to minmax it.

Sure I could see that: if a class isn’t worth ever taking more than you have too, why have it at all?

I disagree about the balance point. You get feats, extra spells, and special abilities. The feats would have to be worthless to not affect balance. The 3.5e Sorcerer is simply weak relative to the Wizard. You can’t argue X = X + Y unless Y has 0 value, and PF Sorcerer bloodline abilities are better than ALL the class abilities for some 3.5e PrC’s (Acolyte of the Skin, for instance).

Certainly in a PF-based game, Sorcerers could be changed to Templar with little effort (and work really well).

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You are right about that. What I was thinking was that the bloodline power (but not the spells and feats) could be replaced by the PrC abilities from the class appendixes. For example:


This is the Servant of Badna PrC for templars of Raam. The abilities detailed under special could easily be applied over 20 levels of templar. There are other SM based PrCs that can be similarly adapted.

Inquisitor is thematically the best fit for Templar.


But that might make Templars OP vs. other classes. PrC abilities (though sometimes under-powered or underwhelming) are balanced by the entry requirements.

IF you’re right about Templars being underpowered, those PrC abilities could be grafted on via PF Sorc. Bloodlines (but they might need to be pruned baxk a bit, IDK).

So…Yeah, sure. Maybe.

IDK about Inquisitor.

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I glanced at Inquisitor: it doesn’t seem to fit/ map to 2e Templar any better (or worse) than 4e Warlock did/ does.

Class fluff goes out the window when ported over, only ability descriptions and mechanics matter (IMO); the fluff can be rewritten.

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These abilities are definitely low powered. They would also be spread out over 20 levels without any additional buffing. Here are the Servant of Badna abilities.

Badna Babble (Ex): Even if the legends of Badna are but constructions of Abalach-Re’s, the servant of Badna uses the
teachings to their full advantage. She gains a +1 bonus to Bluff and Intimidate checks at 1st level. At every odd level thereafter, the
bonus increases by +1.
Riot Control (Sp): Servants of Badna are used to dealing with riots. When the servant of Badna casts spells with the
(Compulsion) descriptor requiring a Will save, such as calm emotions, the save DC increases by 2.
Subterfuge (Sp): Raam is a chaotic city where not even templars feel safe in the streets, thus they have learnt the art of
subterfuge. Servants of Badna can alter their appearances as per the disguise self spell once per day, granting a +10 bonus to
Disguise checks. The duration of this ability is 10 minutes/class level.
Skitterish (Ex): Servants of Badna are paranoid, expecting ambushes and assaults in any situation. They gain a +2 bonus to
initiative. This bonus stacks with the Improved Initiative feat.
Slippery Mind (Ex): This ability functions exactly like the rogue special ability of the same name in the Player’s Handbook.
Immune to Surprise (Ex): The servants of Badna’s paranoia eventually results in that they are never caught off-guard. From
8th level, a servant of Badna can always act in the surprise round. However, the servant of Badna loses sanity, reflected in a
permanent 2 point Wisdom loss, which cannot be restored, not even by a miracle or wish spell.
Voice of Badna (Su): Once per day the servant of Badna can use greater shout as the spell. The save DC is 19 + the servant of
Badna’s Charisma modifier.

Definitely not overpowered and a lot weaker than the pathfinder bloodlines. The other PrCs for templars are much the same.

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Ok, you’re right. I’m convinced.

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I really liked the inquisitor as a stand-in for a Templar.

I’m re-reading the abilities in the 2e original boxed set and there are a lot of abilities that involve accusing an enemy to send them off to imprisonment. It seems to play out one of these scenarios there will always be the potential of immediate combat involved.

I think with the right inquisitor archetype and abilities selects you can create a decent Templar our if the PF1E class.

I’m just looked at the following inquisitions that are selectable instead of a domain and they seemed appealing to provide crunch for the abilities.


Alternatively. There is the War-Priest class. Which is kind of a customizable Paladin of sorts. It allowing you to play evil or neutral divine warrior that gets a domain and weapon specific to a deity (SM). It could also be played as a viable Templar.

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I discovered an old write up of a revised templar class by Sysane. It can be mined for ideas. Interestingly, it uses the warmage style addition of spells to its spell list as it levels up, which is what I was thinking of also.