Okay so you probably all know where I’m going with this but I wanted to ask the community. What do you think about Abalach-Re creating an illusion for a creature that has yet to exist in her part of Athas?
A fully transformed Avangion hadn’t existed in the tablelands to my knowledge. There was possibly one in the hinterlands that the Thri-kreen may have dealt with and Oronis keeps his status pretty anonymous so it’s always bothered me.
How about you?
Thoughts?
Opinions?
I think the SMs already knew about Avangions, and at least 2 were killed in canon.
Could be that AR knew of the kreen legend and just ran with it. Wouldn’t be the first time she made up a false being to hide her true motivations (e.g. Badna).
That said, think it would have been more in her MO to pose as Badna than an avangion. Would be an interesting tweak to change it to her pretending to be her false deity instead.
I didn’t have a huge problem with her pretending to be an avangion. I believe the SMs in general know about them both from history (one fought in the Cleansing Wars in the Hinterlands) and we’ve had a couple killed by SMs in the Tablelands.
I’d have a bigger issue with her trying to pass herself off as Badna. She created him specifically to divorce herself from the consequences of some of his laws. Trying to pretend to be him would invalidate all that if it was discovered and I’ve always played her (and the other SMs to be fair but her even more than most) as having backup plans for her backup plans.
I could see her taking the guise of Badna in an attempt to legitimize his/her existence. The original boxed set does state that most Raamites only pay lip service to the deity but don’t believe its real.
I agree the SM must have some basic knowledge of avangions and potentially killed a few. Throkat comes to mind out of Balic. But the fact she knew what a fully metamorphosized avangions would look like bothers me. Again there has never been a fully changed Avangion in the Tablelands. Possibly one in the Hinterlands.
While these are fair points, if there’s never been a fully transformed avangion, how would anyone know if she got the appearance wrong?
Divination magic could probably reveal the end state of an Avangion metamorphosis.
Even if they haven’t seen a fully metamorphosed avangion, I’m sure that with their intelligence and magic they could do a good job extrapolating what one would look like.
Korgunard was an avangion who was trying to do some stuff during the first adventures. So AR could know about him. I treat SR king like deities, assume that some have access to libraries full of ancient knowledge and powerful divination magic. Using her own transformation she could understand how the avangion transformation works. That would be a believable explanation.
Fair points about the divinations and extrapolation. I suppose even if she wasn’t sure exactly what she was looking for she could peer through space and time to observe that one from the Hinterlands. Someone mentioned it participated in the cleansing wars. Where was that written? I’m far from an athasian history expert so any chance to increase my knowledge would be appreciated.
Also what how do you feel about the retconn that Oronis invented the Avangion metamorphosis spell?
I’m not aware of any retcon. I only read that Korgunard learned from Oronis who “invented” the avangion metamorphosis using the dragon transformation. But that’s what I know. Knowing Dark Sun lore this could totally be a retcon or could be different from another source.
IIRC AR wanted to heep her identity hidden until the very end, that’s why she created the forest quite far from Raam.
Posing as Badna imho would’ve given a huge hint that behind “Badna” there was Abalach-Re.
From the expanded boxed set
Now the sorcerer-king were like gods, but Borys did not stop there. “One of us must complete the full transformation to dragon if the spells holding Rajaat are to remain in place,” Borys explained.
So they KNEW that the final stage of the metamorphosis they’ve just started would be “dragon” (likely through divinations), so I think that the SKs can learn aswell what’s the final stage of the Preserver metamorphosis.
Wasn’t it originally Rajaat created as the psionic enchantments including preserver metamorphosis. Basically he designed it all.
A bit metagamery on the PCs part (like knowing the SMs are dragons), but hear where you’re coming from.
A little surprised that nobody has mentioned Thri-Kreen of Athas, where it’s clearly stated that an avangion will cause thri-kreen to experience a moment of reverence due to a racial memory—which means there’s been at least one at some point in the past. I’m guessing this is the one the original poster is referencing, but if the thri-kreen have a strong enough impression to have a racial memory of it, I would expect the sorcerer-monarchs to have known of it. (Presumably the sorcerer-monarchs killed it.)
See Thri-Kreen of Athas p. 60.
Yes Jesse that’s the book I was referring to when I said there was possibly an Avangion in the Hinterlands. Given where Ka-cha the giant kreen head is located I’m going to assume that Avangion existed there. Now we know none of the sorcerer kings went past the ringing mountains during the cleansing wars. Rajaat told them not to. In fact iirc he forbade them going that way to protect the primitive halflings. Now I suppose after Rajaat was imprisoned they would have no reason to listen to him. Still most were more than a little busy keeping a crazy Borys from destroying the cities they had claimed for themselves for at least a century. It can be assumed they killed the Avangion there since they killed every other threat to themselves. Unless it’s still up there hiding away somewhere.
By ‘past’, you must mean NW? As in around/over the Mountains.
Because they certainly went ‘past’ (as in beyond) the Ringing Mountains (with them on the Left/West) on their way to the Forgotten North region.
A better word would have been to say. The SK did not traverse the ringing mountains into the halflings jungle. Then beyond to the Hinterlands.
I’m happy with that phrasing.
I’m not certain it’s true, or what source that’s from, but the phrasing is clear.