Originally posted by huntercc:
After looking over the Thri-Kreen racial class as shown in the Complete Psionic, I decided to modify it to be (1) a little easier to follow and (2) more in line with the athas.org thri-kreen.
Thri-Kreen Class
A level in this class only grants hit dice as shown below in Table 1. Feats and ability score adjustments are not included in this table, and should be granted according to Table 2-5 in Savage Species.
Optional: A Thri-kreen can choose to take a class level in between each level of Thri-kreen. However, the total class levels can not exceed a character’s current number of levels of Thri-kreen, until all levels of Thri-kreen are obtained. For example, Tik’kl has reached 2nd level and can now decide between taking a 2nd level of Thri-Kreen, or taking his first class level – he eventually chooses to take a level in Ranger. He can not take another class level until he has gained at least one more level of Thri-Kreen.
Base Traits
- [b]Hit Die:[/b] d8
- Favored Class: Psychic Warrior
- Ability Scores: +2 Str, -2 Int, +2 Wis, -4 Cha
- Size: Medium
- Speed: Base land speed is 40ft
- Darkvision to 60ft
- Sleep Immunity
- Multiple Limbs
- Weapon Familiarity: treat the gythka and chatkcha as martial rather than exotic weapons
- +4 racial bonus to Hide checks in sandy or arid areas
- Proficiencies: proficient with all simple weapons
- Automatic Languages: Thri-kreen. Bonus languages: Common, Dwarven, Elven, Jozhal, Scrab, Tari and Tohr-kreen.
Class Skills
A Thri-kreen’s racial class skills are: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot
Skill points at each level: (2+Int)x4 at 1st level, (2+Int) at 2nd, and none at 3rd.
Table 1:
LevelBABFort/Ref/WillSkill PtsSpecial<br />1st+1+0/+2/+2(2+Int)x4Racial Hit Die, Natural Armor +1, Natural Attacks<br />2nd+2+0/+3/+3 2+Int Racial Hit Die, +2 Dex, Leap, Natural Armor +2<br />3rd+2+0/+3/+3 none Poison, +2 Dex, Natural Armor +3, Deflect Arrows
Class Features
Racial Hit Die: A Thri-kreen gains 1d8 Racial HD at 1st level, another at 2nd level, and none at any level thereafter, except those gained from class levels.
(all other features are as described in the athas.org rules)
Comments?
Originally posted by bengeldorn:
Besides, that you should specify the Racial Hit Die 
this seems ok.
Although, with knowing how the CP’s thri-kreen racial class looks like, I’d suggest to split the +4 Dex at 3rd, to a +2 Dex at 2nd and 3rd level, while canging Deflect Arros from 2nd to 3rd level. IMHO, the thri-kreen’s deflect arrow ability comes from the nature of its natural armor and not by any expertise or techniques it uses.
Originally posted by mystictheurge:
I like to think it also has to do with high natural dexterity and extra arms.
Originally posted by bengeldorn:
Well, I was thinking about the way K’kriq was deflecting incoming arrows. IRRC, the PP didn’t describe him wielding his arms to deflect them, but the arrows ricocheting from his natural armor. It’s been a while I read the novels, but I’m pretty sure he wasn’t doing anything active to deflect them.
But then again, this could be an idea for another racial PrC. 
Originally posted by huntercc:
[quote]Besides, that you should specify the Racial Hit Die this seems ok.
Although, with knowing how the CP’s thri-kreen racial class looks like, I’d suggest to split the +4 Dex at 3rd, to a +2 Dex at 2nd and 3rd level, while canging Deflect Arros from 2nd to 3rd level. IMHO, the thri-kreen’s deflect arrow ability comes from the nature of its natural armor and not by any expertise or techniques it uses.[/quote]
Thanks for the feedback… and if you look again under Base Traits you’ll see I did specify the racial hit die 
Although I should probably state it again in the class features entry for clarity.
I had considered splitting the dex bonus, but figured I would leave it the way CP had theirs and wait to see everybody’s comments. You’re probably right though, deflect arrows should come with dexterity bonus not before it.
Originally posted by bengeldorn:
Yeah, somehow I missed that.
Well, I was actually thinking of the full natural armor bonus. Anyway, I don’t like seeing a +4 on any ability score at one class level.
Originally posted by eric_anondson:
Not to forget that chaktchas are the only weapon thri-kreens learn to use via racial memory. Being adept at catching a returning chaktcha is part of the use. I’d say that with a thri-kreen being adept (through racial memory) at catching a thrown wedge (albeit one they threw themselves) is not too far removed from being able to deflect any missile.
As it is a racial memory ability, born into every thri-kreen instead of learned or experienced, maybe it should be a 1st-level ability?
Originally posted by huntercc:
If we did that, the levels would become unbalanced unless we shuffled things around a bit more. Currently, 1st level gives Racial Hit Die, Natural Armor +1, and Natural Attacks. I don’t see moving either of those, and taking deflect arrows away from level 3 would leave that even weaker than it already is.
An argument for leaving deflect arrows at 2nd or 3rd level could be that a young thri-kreen just hasn’t become skilled and/or dexterous enough to pull it off yet. Savage Species uses similar arguments to explain gaining hit dice… the monster character has basically grown.
Originally posted by huntercc:
Anybody have any more arguments for changing anything, or should I call this my final version?
Originally posted by kalthandrix:
I like it- it is a great way to remove the LA. I will totally be using this in my campaign. Thanks.
Now I want you to do the half-giant too- get to it!!!
Originally posted by kalthandrix:
Remember to save this off-site and then repost it so it can be but into the archive after the 15th.
Hey- you could send it to me too if you would not mind. kalthandrix@gmail.com - not for the Appendix II, but for my own use.
Originally posted by huntercc:
Yup, I saved it before I posted it When I get home from work tonight I’ll try to remember to send it to you. And I was planning on starting the HG next, and probably the Mul and Aarokocra as well
Originally posted by mystictheurge:
Ok, so call my crazy, but I never really got these things. It’s not like it’s removed the LA, just kind of changed it into an actual level.
Sure savage progressions are great for things you couldn’t otherwise play at starting level, but besides that it doesn’t actually change anything, as far as I can tell.
Originally posted by huntercc:
Well you’re sorta right… not much is changed. At the highest level of this class you would be equivalent to the athas.org version. But, this gives you the option of mixing in a normal class level before you finish this one. This part is much more noticeable with a higher LA creature/class, such as the one found in Complete Psionic.
Originally posted by kalthandrix:
Hi Crazy
See with the LA, you have to earn the higher experiance points (ie like you were a higher level) but without the benefits of that higher level- so If you were 7th level, but had an LA+1, then you would have earned enough XP to be 8th level, but you are not- so you do not get the Attribute mod or anything else that everyone else with the same XP total gets. Do you see what I mean?
By making it an actual class level, it makes it better IMO
Originally posted by huntercc:
It should be in your inbox now
Originally posted by mystictheurge:
[quote]Hi Crazy
See with the LA, you have to earn the higher experiance points (ie like you were a higher level) but without the benefits of that higher level- so If you were 7th level, but had an LA+1, then you would have earned enough XP to be 8th level, but you are not- so you do not get the Attribute mod or anything else that everyone else with the same XP total gets. Do you see what I mean?
By making it an actual class level, it makes it better IMO[/quote]
But if you actually look at the Racial Class Progressions as they’re presented in Complete Psionic the character doesn’t get Regular Feats and Ability Increases any different than they would’ve anyway.
I’m fairly certain Savage Progressions worked similarly, you would get bonus feats as listed in the SP table, but then to get your regular character feats/ability increases it was based off actual character level (i.e. feats at 1st, 3rd, 6th, CL not ECL).
Originally posted by huntercc:
[quote]But if you actually look at the Racial Class Progressions as they’re presented in Complete Psionic the character doesn’t get Regular Feats and Ability Increases any different than they would’ve anyway.
I’m fairly certain Savage Progressions worked similarly, you would get bonus feats as listed in the SP table, but then to get your regular character feats/ability increases it was based off actual character level (i.e. feats at 1st, 3rd, 6th, CL not ECL).[/quote]
Actually that’s not quite true… if you look a little more closely at the progression table in Complete Psionic, and then read the descriptions for Feats and Ability Increases, you’ll see where it tells you they are based on Hit Die rather than character level… which is why I refer people to table 2-5 in Savage Species
I found it confusing as presented in Complete Psionic, which is one of the reasons I wrote it this way
Edit: you would still get whatever bonus feats your class gives you at whatever class level (such as fighter bonus feats), but the extra feats that everybody gets are based on Hit Die