Defiler Metamorphosis I and II

I reduced lifebender to 5% per rank. Take the total DC from the seeds and factors, reduce that by by 5% per rank in lifebender, then apply that as a mitigating factor.

How about using my TN cerebremancer template 14 levels, 12 levels of wizard and Psion increase). Wizard 5, Psion 5, TN cerebremancer 14 to start. At this stage it casts and manifests at 17th level 24 character levels. You can use this as a base for all the SMs. They can be differentiated after that. Then you choose a 5 level prestige class on each side to finish it off at 34 total character levels. After that evolved paragon.

Take Nibenay. He is a 44th level, 4th stage dragon. Wizard 5, Psion 5, TN cerebremancer 14, Master of the Way 5, Archmage 5, Evolved Paragon 10.

1 Like

I’d prefer mind mage personally, though I think they synergize very well with each other, but it either brings the level up considerably or loses a number of bonus feats (if using the 10 level version for wiz4/psi1/ath-cereb10/mind mage10).
Regardless of the base, I’m less having trouble with sorcerer kings/queens like Nibenay whose have fairly easy to determine options for Prc’s. Instead I’m and having trouble more with sorcerer kings/queens like Hamanu and Lalali-puy:

Hamanu, for example is a more combat focused champion. However, thanks to your rules, it is no longer as necessary for his classes to boost his melee abilities, but I’d still like his levels to reflect his history in some manner. This naturally makes it harder to work him in while still having sufficient evolved paragon levels to help catch up.

Lalali-Puy is awkward for a different reason. While I agree with your assessment of her as a thrallherd and enchantress, in 2e she had some formidable Psychometabolism (including healing) and “nature focused” Psychokinetic abilities, the better to both play her “forest goddess” role and, depending on how you interpret her character, perhaps even delude herself into thinking, at least sometimes, that its even true. I’d actually consider making her as an Ardent rather than a psion, but given ardent’s weird mantle advancement, I’m not quite sure how to make it work.

1 Like

Don’t sweat the optimization of the SMs. Remember that none of these guys actually transformed themselves - Rajaat did that. Give Hamanu 5 levels of fighter. I anticipated this, that’s why there are floating feats (and for the item creation feats).

Lalali-Puy can be a pyschometabolist, no problem. Psychic chirugery gives her access to the powers needed for thrallherd.

I actually prefer unoptimized Sorcerer Monarchs. The advanced being metamorphosis process, both the salient feats and psionic enchantments to progress the stages, should stand on their own.

1 Like

I agree. You might have noticed by how I gave widened intensified meteor swarms rather than basically anything actually optimal to the dragon above. That said, thematically, mind mage is about as good as it gets for advanced beings, with your cerebremancer variants being close seconds. Power and flavor can go hand in hand.

1 Like

I would say choose one or the other, but not both. That’s what I am objecting to because of design principles. You have two dual progression classes. While they have different abilities, they fulfill the same function. It doesn’t matter to me whether it is mindmage, cerebremancer (of either type) but it should be one or the other. You could even have all three in play depending on the character, but taking any one should block off the others.

Below is probably the last of them I’m going to make for a bit. I’m getting pretty burned out.


Female stage 3 athasian dragon defiler 8/psion (egoist) 5/true cerebremancer 14/thrallherd 10/evolved paragon 7

CE large dragon (advanced being, augmented humanoid, psionic, shapechanger)

Init +10 Senses darkvision 60ft., low light vision., scent; Listen +40 Spot +40

Languages All; polyglot,

AC 21 (-1 size, +10 dex, +2 natural), touch 19, flat-footed 11

hp 659 (44 HD, 37d4+444 plus 7d10+84); fast healing 5; DR 15/magic

Immune disease, poison, stunning

Fort +36, Ref +34, Will +33

Speed 30 ft.

Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.

Melee Spear +57/+52/+47/+42 (1d6+14)

Base Atk +44; Grp +66

Atk Options Dragon Magic, Empower Power, Extend Power, Exception Beckons, Genocidal Focus, Improved Augment Summoning, Maximize Power, Metapotency(empower spell/power), Quicken Power, Raze Feats (Controlled Raze, Distant Raze), Soma Summons

Special Actions Focused Components, Psionic Meditation,

Combat Gear

Psionic Enchantments Known (Require expenditure of both an epic spell slot and an epic power slot) (CL 44):

extradimensional vault ( can call using correspond), impenetrable inertial barrier, indelible psionic signature, mass quintessence,

Epic Spells/Day 4; Epic Spells Known (CL 44):

crown of vermin (DC 40) , epic mage armor, mass frog, nailed to the sky (DC 40) , storm of icy death, soul dominion (DC 37) , superb dispelling, verdigris (DC 40)

Wizard Spells Prepared (CL 44): DC 27+spell level; DC 30+spell level for conjuration spells


17th— empowered maximized quickened greater shout (DC 35), extended maximized quickened summon monster 1X

16th— empowered extended maximized quickened acid fog, maximized quickened time stop

15th— empowered maximized quickened groundflame (DC 36) , empowered quickened summon monster 1X

14th— empowered quickened incendiary cloud, empowered quickened horrid wilting

13th— empowered quickened delayed blast fireball (DC 34) , quickened power word kill, quickened time stop,

12th— maximized summon monster 1X, quickened maze, quickened summon natures ally V111(animals only)

11th— empowered maximized chain lightning (DC 33) , empowered summon monster 1X, maximized polar ray

10th— empowered horrid wilting (DC 35) , extended summon elemental monolith, quickened greater dispel magic

9th— gate, shambler, summon monster 1X, time stop (2) , wail of the banshee (DC 36), wish

8th— control plants (DC 35) , mind blank, polymorph any object (DC 35), prismatic wall (DC 35) , quickened solid fog, summon nature’s ally V111 (animals only), sunburst (DC 35)

7th— animate plants, control weather, delayed blast fireball (DC 34) , finger of death (DC 34) , greater scrying (DC 34), project image (DC 34) , quickened slow (DC 30) ,

6th— acid fog, antilife shell, greater dispel magic (2) , groundflame (DC 36), summon monster V1, true seeing,

5th— animal growth, baleful polymorph, cloudkill (DC 35) , commune with nature, major creation, mind fog, quietstorm, wall of thorns

4th— black tentacles, command plants (DC 31), greater invisibility, solid fog, summon nature’s ally 1V (animals only), scrying (DC 31) touch the black (DC 31), wall of ice,

3rd— dispel magic, dominate animal (DC 30) , lightning bolt (DC 30), plant growth, protection from energy (2) , slow (DC 30) , stinking cloud (DC 33)

2nd— barkskin, glitterdust (DC 32), mirror image (2) , pyrotechnics (DC 29) , see invisibility, scorching ray, web (DC 32)

1st— alarm, cooling canopy, entangle (2)(DC 28) , identify, magic missile (2) , shield, speak with animals

0th— detect magic (2), read magic (2)

Epic Powers/Day 4; Epic Powers Known (ML 44):

beast mastery (DC 37) , epic schism, psionic kinetic control

Power Points/Day 513; Psion Powers Known (ML 44) DC 27+Power Level

9th— affinity field (DC 36) , assimilate (DC 36) , greater metamorphosis

8th— bend reality, fusion, psionic greater teleport, true metabolism

7th— energy conversion, fission, ultrablast (DC 34)

6th— aura alteration, psionic disintegrate (DC 33) , psionic restoration, psychometry

5th— ethereal agent, psionic revivify, restore extremity

4th— aura sight, correspond, metamorphosis, psionic divination, psionic dominate (DC 31) ,

3rd— dispel psionics, ectoplasmic form, hustle, psionic blink, telekinetic force,

2nd— concentrate water, concussion blast, detect life, empathetic transfer, energy stun (DC 29) , read thoughts (DC 29) ,

1st— control flames (DC 28) , defensive precognition, detect psionics, mindlink, psionic charm (DC 28) , psychic tracking, vigor

Abilities Str 38 (+14), Dex 30 (+10), Con 34 (+12), Int 44 (+17), Wis 28 (+9), Cha 40 (+15)

SQ ageless, change shape (small, medium, or large humanoid), elemental energy vortex, meta-crafting, meta-mastery, perfectly focused, self-sustaining, twofold master

Salient Feats Advanced Being Apotheosis, Advanced Being Exaltation, Advanced Being Skill Affinity, Advanced Being Spell Capacity, Essence Integration, Floating Feats (Domain Magic (2), Controlled Raze, Distant Raze) Mystical Reservoir (6,600 XP), Recuperation, Soma Summons

Epic Feats Arcane Memoryb, Domain Magic (Animal, Plant)b, Epic Manifesting, Epic Practiced Manifester, Epic Practiced Spellcaster, Epic Spell Focus (conjuration), Epic Spellcasting, Epic Thrallherdb, Exceptional Beckonsb, Improved Augment Summoningb, Improved Spell Capacity (10th), Legendary Thrallherd, Metapotency (Empower Spell), Polyglotb, Psiotheurgy

Feats Controlled Razeb, Craft Universal Itemb, Craft Wondrous Itemb, Distant Razeb, Dragon Magicb, Empower Powerb, Empower Spell, Eschew Materialsb, Expanded Knowledge ( mindlink, read thoughts) b, Extend Powerb, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus (conjuration), Maximize Powerb , Maximize Spellb, Metamorphic Transfer, Pacticed Manifesterb, Practiced Spellcaster, Psionic Meditation, Quicken Powerb, Quicken Spellb, Scribe Scrollb, Spell Focus (conjuration),

Skills Autohypnosis 20(+52), Bluff 47(+86), Concentration 20(+54), Diplomacy 47(+86), Intimidate 20(+59), Knowledge [Arcana 47(+86), History 20(+59), Nature 20(+59), Psionics 47(+86), Psiotheurgy 47(no check), Religion 20(+59), The Planes 20(+59)], Listen 10(+40), Perform (dance) 5(+37), Psicraft 47(+86), Search 10 (+40), Sense Motive 47(+80), Spellcraft 47(+86, +133 for casting psionic enchantments), Spot 10(+40),

Advanced Being Skill Affinity makes all skills class skills and gives a +22 Advanced Being bonus to all skills.

Possessions combat gear plus _,

Spellbook spells prepared plus all

Metamorphoses Anoint the Champion. Dragon 2-3, gained Arcane Memory as a bonus feat

Epic Thrallherd Benefits with Feats. Score=70

40,000 1st

4,000 2nd

2,000 3rd

1,000 4th

500 5th

250 6th

130 7th

70 8th

40 9th

20 10th

10 11th

Thralls = levels 40 and 38

1 Like

Great work. I wish there was a way we could automate this process a bit. The biggest mistake for 3.5 was not having it entirely integrated into a digital tabletop.

Could one of Lalali-Puy’s thralls be a spirit of the land?

1 Like

I don’t see why not.

1 Like

Having a spirit of the land thrall would play well with Lalali-Puy’s guise as a forest goddess. The spirit of the land’s ability to create water and control weather at will may account for Gulg’s relatively lush ecology.

1 Like

My thoughts exactly.

1 Like

“Lalali-Puy isn’t a forest goddess, she is a defiler” - Veiled Alliance.

Then enter Lalali-Puy’s shill, the thrall spirit of the land. The spirit of the land hoodwinks all the local druids. The spirit of the land knows its wrong, but it just can’t help itself.

1 Like

Perfection. What do you think about my build above? Does it match how you perceive her statistics and powers?

1 Like

I was just going through it line by line. Looks good to me. I notice that you selected Soma Summons - perfect for Lalali-Puy. Lalali-Puy is the Jim Jones of Gulg, and now her stats actually reflect that.

1 Like

And thanks - seeing these statblocks helps me visualize how it will actually work in play. The power level of the SMs is just right, in my opinion. The framework is now mostly complete. I am going to keep doing minor revisions, and improve the fluff. Hopefully I will be able to publish the finished work soon.

1 Like

You’re welcome. Having these rules for advanced beings is great!

1 Like

I got a lot of inspiration for this work from The Gates of Hell, by Dicefreaks Publishing. They saw that the outsiders of the Hells, particularly their leadership, were pushovers for PCs and they remedied it. The fluff is great, too.

1 Like

Looking forward to it.

Edit: Do you have any ideas or rules for Avangions? I could offer suggestions if you like.

1 Like

You mean the specific metamorphosis spells?

1 Like

In part, but more generally I was curious as to what, if any, general changes that you were planning on making to Avangions. I know you wanted to make them outsiders, for example. Are there any other major changes being planned?

1 Like

Perhaps the solution is to simply create an Avangion type. So the type could be Avangion, the subtype Advanced Being (just like Dragon+ Advanced Being). But I don’t know. Flavor wise the Abberation type applied to avangions in Legends of Athas puts them at odds with the many anti abberation prestige classes and abilities in D&D lore. Are avangions really kin to beholders, mind flayers, and the creatures of the far realm? What type do you think they should be?

1 Like