I mean, WOTC published, for 4e, 2 hardcover dark sun books, 2 adventures, and about 24 online articles. If that’s not what you’re asking about please clarify.
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I see now.
I meant: besides TSR/WotC/athas.org published material, I am aware of only one published thing of scale like an adventure or area expansion, as in a pdf, so not counting website articles or blogs.
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I was looking for the consensus of the members of this forum. That’s what I meant by community.
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Ah, well in that case I still don’t think you are going to get a satisfactory answer. Most of the “old guard” as it were, are gone, and with them most of the community consensus. I know that I have very strong objections to some of the stuff this site made, and absolutely love some other parts of it. I feel the same is true for many people around here.
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I wish I would have been here back in those days. I played Dark Sun in the 90s with the original boxed set. I’d like to think I could have been one of the old guard if circumstances had been different
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I suspect I’m one of the few voices left remaining that still actively promote the official sites outside of said official sites.
Until someone pokes the Dragon-King WotC, and successfully gets a response of clarification, or outright licenses the IP, thus ending the official site status permanently (like what happened to the Kargatane), it’s going to be an unknown.
My proposed solution of provoking a response hasn’t passed Flip’s muster, but it’s a bit aggressive, soooooo I can’t blame him.
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May I ask how you proposed to provoke an answer from said Dragon-King? Just curious
Does it involve a new version of the heartwood spear? That thing hurts like hell. Take it from me.
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The status of the site is still extant. Just continue as usual until being told otherwise.
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My proposed solution is bold and straightforward: reboot third edition, Athas style.
Release new 3e core and source books (Athas tailored and specific, for example split the current r7/r8 into a Dark Sun DMG, Dark Sun MM, and Dark Sun PHB with all psionics instead of magic and have source books like Expanded Magic Handbook and Sandstorms of Athas and Complete Warriors of Athas and so forth), along with updated FAQ and Errata for all books with broad rules fixes for D&D that have been identified from the various communities, with all the official branding that only an official site can use. For that matter, we should technically be able to include the XP table…
Given how trigger happy their lawyers are, it should provoke a response… and if it doesn’t, keep going with fixes and updates and get both a better 3e and a better Athas.
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I’d leave the XP table alone. Bad cost/benefit ratio. I am down with the rest though.
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Fair enough. I’d really like to see the rest happen though, myself.
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It is not a good adventure. There’s even a honorable, good-aligned ranger with a flaming artifact sword of goodness. A paladin in disguise if I ever saw one.
Do you think the flaming sword is supposed to echo the one guarding Eden?
“So he cast out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden winged angels, and a whirling sword of flame, to guard the way to the Tree of Life.” Genesis 3:24
24 So He drove out the man; and He placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.
I prefer the KJ version, it’s relatively more accurate than most other english translations.
interesting comparison from the adventure to say the least.
I always wondered if that sword was a laser weapon on a turret of some kind… maybe an anti-grav turret so that it’s true 3D coverage?
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This post went far afield but I just realized the answer to the original question was in the module itself: Abalach-Re got the idea for posing as an avangion by looking at a mural in the underground lair beneath the grove.
My question: what was that underground lair built for originally? We know that the Tree of Life was there before Abalach-Re. What else was going on in this locale?
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So, the side bar for Oronis in Defilers and Preservers: the Wizards of Athas for developing the Avangion transformation says that the Oronis spent 1,000 years crafting the basis for the spell with a Preserver named Besteren, which seems excessive if the transformation’s basis existed during the Green Age. It also specifically says that none of the other SKs know there is a cure for being a Dragon, and none of them would want it.
Of course, this is where we get multiple-author plot-hole swiss. I see the statue head the Thri-Kreen revere as a likely being a Pyreen, and the Avangion transformation turns the preserve into something similar enough to a Pyreen’s essence that it triggers a racial memory, especially with its face. In any event, having Avangions floating around in the Green Age is problematic for other reasons:
- Why Hamanu wouldn’t want to become an Avangion if he stops his Dragon transformation to avoid becoming Rajaat’s pawn, and why battling Avangions isn’t even mentioned in passing during the segments of his book from the Cleansing Wars.
- Lalai-Puy would also probably want to use this transformation to better fulfill her role as the Oba.
- Why didn’t the Avangions destroy the Champions or at least kill some of them? The transformation is painful, but there’s no destructive side effects. Unless we’re going to throw in a contrived excuse that there weren’t enough enemies of life during the Green Age to start the transformation, there’s not a good reason why any major kingdom wouldn’t have a few Avangions. Or why they didn’t rule kingdoms.
Then there’s just the incredibly strange idea of creating an illusion with a creature you haven’t dealt with for hundreds or thousands of years and don’t want anyone to know about. Who is Abalach-Re trying to snare? Even if it’s Sadira, a powerful preserver would make more sense than a weird butterfly creature she’s far more likely to discount.
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I’ve been reading the Dune series recently. As pure speculation perhaps Rajaat himself was indirectly behind the mural. Maybe he created legends about his two highest forms of magical transformation. The Dragon and the Avangion as a sort of dualist legend. He inserted it into the collective unconsciousness like the missionaria protectiva. To manipulate others later when he started his war?
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This was something I was pondering. When I first read through the module I assumed that Abalach-Re had created the underground complex. P.42 of the module states:
The underground lair measures 180 feet in diameter and corresponds to the plaza above. In fact, the obsidian globes are situated in locations necessary for the defiler metamorphosis spell.
So the complex seems to be an integral part of AR’s ritual and plan, which it’s stated is derived from Kalak’s attempted metamorphosis. Further, my reading is the complex and flat-plane ziggurat up top are part of the same structure. Having a random tree of life in the desert is plausible enough. But an entire complex specifically designed for an epic spell going unused? That’s pushing it.
For my money you either go with Abalach-Re finding the whole complex and the accelerated metamorphosis spell ready and waiting (perhaps this was Rajaat’s first try at what he would eventually create in Troll Grave Chasm), and getting the Avangion inspiration that way.
Or you go with it’s all Abalach’s plan and structure and change the murals to either tapestries or portable paintings, or else be evidently something she found elsewhere (in the ruins of Giustenal perhaps?) and brought for kicks and giggles.
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Wait, what did rajaat do in the troll grave chasm??
There’s a ruin there which was a school of wizardry in the Green Age. Rajaat wove a 10-stage Draconic metamorphosis spell into the fabric of the building. It uses the lush vegetation and life within the Chasm to fuel the spell. Cast it and you go straight to Stage X Dragon.
Detailed in Dungeon Magazine #56 - Grave Circumstances.
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Also known as “the infamous continuity nightmare adventure” (not literally but close) on the old forums due to a number of factors, the insta-dragon button included.
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