Sorcerer Monarch classes and prestige classes

Rules 3rd Edition D&D or Pathfinder
#1

Suggest some classes and prestige classes for the Sorcerer Monarchs. In 2E it was simple - wizard + psionicist. In 3.5e, we have more options and thus ways to further differentiate the SMs from each other.

When thinking about this, also take note of my framework.

Wizard, Psion, Cerebremancer is kind of obvious, but we have 35 to 42 levels to play with. Use anything 3.5e, including Dragon Magazine.

Lalali-Puy, Oba of Gulg: Psion, thrallherd, wizard, cerebremancer.
Tectuctitlay, Son of Ral and Guthay, Ruler of Draj: Wizard, master astrologer, psion, cerebremancer.
Hamanu, King of Urik (standard version): Wizard, psion, cerebremancer. Drawing a blank on PrCs.
Hamanu, King of Urik (Lynn Abbey version): Sorcerer, psion, cerebremancer.
Nibenay, Shadow King: Wizard, shadowcraft mage, psion, cerebremancer.
Andropinis, Dictator of Balic: drawing a blank.
Oronis of Kurn: No idea.
Daskinor, ruler of Eldaarish: No idea.
King Kalak: Psion, Wizard, Archmage, cerebremancer.

Have it it. I haven’t given it too much thought. What classes and PrCs should they have?

#2

These are from my notes (and include the stat blocks from the LoA and DS Core for those that were provided. I have some alternates (at least one for Tek). All of these were from before our discussion last year on your AB framework, so they can be adjusted accordingly.

EDIT: Copy and paste messed up the format; will redo in the morning.

1st Champion of Rajaat: Sacha of Arala, Curse of the Kobolds Defiler 5/Seer 5/Elocator 6/Cerebremancer 10/Arch Defiler 2
Metamind? Lurk?

2nd Champion of Rajaat: Kalak, Ogre Doom
Defiler 5/Beguiler 3/Telepath 3/Cerebremancer 10/Ultimate Magus 10/Athasian Dragon 2

3rd Champion of Rajaat: Dregoth, Ravager of Giants
Defiler 7/Egoist 8/Cerebremancer 5/Arch Defiler 10/Athasian Dragon 8
(From Dregoth Ascending)

4th Champion of Rajaat: Myron of Yorum, Troll Scorcher
Psychic Warrior/Defiler/Cerebremancer
(Legends of Athas)
4th Champion of Rajaat: Manu (Hamanu) of Deche, Troll Scorcher
Defiler 5/Psychic Warrior 11/Arch Defiler 10/Cerebremancer 5/Athasian Dragon 4
(Core?)

5th Champion of Rajaat: Uybess (Abalach-Re) of Waverly, Orc Plague
Wilder 10/Defiler 10/Cerebremancer 10/Athasian Dragon 2

6th Champion of Rajaat: Gallard (Nibenay), Bane of Gnomes
Defiler 5/Seer 5/Loremaster 10/Cerebremancer 10/Athasian Dragon 2

7th Champion of Rajaat; Sielba, Destroyer of Pterrans
Defiler 5/Seer 5/Arch Defiler 7/Cerebremancer 6/Athasian Dragon 2

8th Champion of Rajaat: Albeorn (Andropinus) of Dunswich, Slayer of Elves
Egoist 5/Defiler 5/Cerebremancer 10/Arch Psion 3/Archmage 5/Athasian Dragon 2

9th Champion of Rajaat: Tectuktitly, Wemic Annihilator
Divine Mind 10/Defiler 7/Cerebremancer 10/Athasian Dragon 1
Or-
Psychic Warrior 8/Defiler 5/Arch Defiler 7/Cerebremancer 8/Athasian Dragon 1

10th Champion of Rajaat: Keltis (Oronis) Lizard Man Executioner
Preserver 5/Shaper 5/Cerebremancer 10/Loremaster 3/Avangion 5

11th Champion of Rajaat: Inenek (Lalali-Puy), Aarackocra Scourge
Defiler 5/Telepath 6/Arch Defiler 5/Thrallherd 4/Cerebremancer 5/Athasian Dragon 2
(DS core? The levels don’t meet the prereqs)

12th Champion of Rajaat: Wyan of Bodach, Pixie Blight
Defiler 5/Arch Defiler 5/Seer 5/Metamind 6/Cerebremancer 7

13th Champion of Rajaat: Borys of Ebe, Butcher of Dwarves
Psychic Warrior 2/Defiler 5/Egoist 5/Cerebremancer 10/Arch Psion 5/Archmage 5/Athasian Dragon 10

14th Champion of Rajaat: Daskinor, Goblin Death
Defiler 8/Nomad 10/Cerebremancer 10/Athasian Dragon 2

15th Champion if Rajaat: Kalid-Ma, Tati Killer
Defiler 5/Arch Defiler 10/Shaper 10/Cerebremancer 5/Athasian Dragon 8

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#3

My framework has massively change and improved. It now fits in better with 3.5e, and the way power increases is way more intuitive.

Take a look.

EDIT: I just realised that this is the latest version - get this instead -

#4

I will be certain to check it out.

Now that I typed out all of these, knowing what I know (remember) from the AB work, and seeing the new Athasian Cerebremancer in the other thread, all of these have work to be done.

The ones that have the stat script in the core material and LoA I think I ripped straight from the pages and then modeled the others after them for power comparisons.

I remember making a comment about Arch Defiler having a spell progression like Shadow Templar. Perhaps I will assume that to be the case in a new sample build here to see what it looks like when you combine all these rules together. :thinking:

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#5

Oops. I see it now. Will read.

#6

I edited my first reply with stat lines (class mixes). I don’t have complete blocks. Completing the stat blocks would be my DS Opus. :joy:

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#7

Aaaahhhhh. I see that you’ve included arcane casters such as beguilers, something that I have been arguing for on this forum.

#8

I had one of them as a Sorcerer/Wilder in my notes, but changed it to Defiler. These first iterations were exploratory to get something to work from and represent the different personalities.

I think there are multiple influences on their progressions beyond the obvious arcane/psionic requirements. 1) Rajaat would have core teachings and minimum requirements for competence in their roles as genocidal maniacs, 2) some tailoring toward the weaknesses and strengths of the chosen enemy, 3) limited room for individualism as a Champion.

I like having new toys to play with, so I will work on a chassis with the updated AC class, and layer in the yet-to-be-updated-AD spell progression.

#9

I’d say a Sorcerer is either a defiler or preserver. The way they cast spells should not affect the source of the spell energy.

The new material I wrote should better be able to represent the abilities of champions and non champions both. For example, there is this salient feat.

Genocidal Focus [Salient]
You have chosen to exterminate an entire species of creatures.
Prerequisites: Evolution score.
Benefit: Genocidal Focus (Su): One race of creatures is your sworn enemy. Damage-dealing spells and powers deal +4d6 bonus damage to members of the designated race. Any weapon you use in combat is considered a dread weapon against members of that race. If you stop using the weapon, it loses its dread ability. When used against members of your enemy race, the weapon’s effective enhancement bonus is +4, and it deals +4d6 points of bonus damage.
You choose your enemy race from among those listed under the Type (subtype) Table 2–4: Athasian Ranger Favored Enemies, in the Dark Sun Core Rules 3.5, page 52 - 53.
Special: This salient feat is associated with the Champions of Rajaat.

It’s lifted straight from Legends of Athas, but turned into a salient feat. In that way, non champions will likely not have this salient feat and champions will. But all advanced beings will have the same amount of salient feats given exactly the same evolution score and ranks of metamorphosis.

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#10

I forget if the community has accepted whether an Ardent gets choices from their Mantles based on ML (with their strange wording) vs. the standard method of acquiring powers?

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#11

Looking here, it doesn’t seem to correct. Yet I’ve seen many people give advice about it.

(The RAI of the quoted text has been clarified by the designer as to what was meant when the rules were written and how they were play-tested at WotC. Namely, the Ardent selection of powers based on power point limit was intended to be interpreted as by Class level, not Manifester level. As this clarification came after publication and was also not included in the official Complete Psionic errata, your DM may not count it as official. Check with your DM as to which interpretation is being used.)

Found here.

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#12

We’ll operate under the more restrictive (and intended/normal) assumptions. Otherwise, the AC and Twin Wells class feature greatly enhances an Ardent’s progression.

Initial outlook at earliest entry point is one class ends with CL of 12, and the other 11 at level 16. Twin Wells boosts this to 16 and 15, but at level 20, the character will have 8th level spells/powers for one class, and 6th level for the other.

Assuming we can get a workable Arch Defiler (AD) with the accelerated spell progression able to enter at 6th level, and a psionic 5/AD 1/AC1-10 chassis, this grants ML 12 (6th level powers), and CL 11 (9th level spells) at level 16, finishing out with a full manifesting class to 20 places it at 8th level powers (base ML 16), and 9th level spells (base CL 11).

Looks like it will be critical to nail down the entry requirements for AD for clear entry, as well as the caster level definition for treatment in the Athasian Cerebremancer class.

Sorry for combining multiple threads into this one; can take respective pieces to those threads if you think we should.

#13

Take Oronis. Slight rebuild of the levels.

Oronis, Sorcerer King of Kurn. 5th rank Avangion.
Wizard (preserver) 5, Psion (Shaper) 10, Athasian Cerebremancer 10, Loremaster 3. 28 total levels.

Equivalent to 18th level wizard, 17th level psion. CL 22, ML 21.

Evolution score: 38. 28 (character level) + 10 (5 ranks of metamorphosis).

Salient feats: 15.

Genocidal Focus, Sorcerer Monarch, Superior Species, Superior Spell Capacity, Superior Toughness, Evolved Immunities x 2 (death effects, disintergration), Mystical Reservoir, Rapid Feat Acquisition, Recuperation, Signature Spells, Spell/Power Resistance, Superior Skill Focus, Perfect Preparation, Item Creator.

The 5 ranks of metamorphosis really makes the difference, since each rank is worth 2 points, and these 2 points give one salient feat. Its possible that Oronis’ single minded focus on metamophosis has hindered his advancement in class levels.

Note: I haven’t tested the build for qualification of everything. Its possible it doesn’t qualify for some things here.

#14

:thinking: This makes sense.

Random(ish) thoughts:

  1. Shadow Templar chassis may make sense to have as a modular PrC, akin to Mythic Exemplar to represent an accelerated spell progression for different paths, but not have three different PrC’s (there is a lot of overlap)

  2. I’d imagine Oronis retrained his Genocidal Focus; is there a way to accomplish that via metamorphosis or can rules for retraining be applied to Salient Feats?

  3. Oronis sounds to me like the kind that would take a slow route to power

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#15

Borys on the other hand is an absolute terror. At 42 character levels (I am counting the Dragon PrC levels as levels in other classes as I don’t use it) and 10 ranks in dragon metamorphosis, Borys has an evolution score of 62! That’s 27 salient feats. He’s not messing about. Note that psychic warrior or levels in fighter are no longer needed, because of the superior attack salient feat. All of the “warrior” SMs have that salient feat.

Lets say the build is Psion (egoist) 15, Wizard (defiler) 12, Athasian Cerebremancer 10, Archmage 5.
Equivalent to psion 23, wizard 27. ML 27, CL 31. Not including practiced spellcaster/manifester, which Borys likely has. In which case ML 31, CL35.

Salient feats might be: Genocidal Focus, Sorcerer Monarch, Superior Species, Superior Spell Capacity, Belated Specialist (evoker), Superior Toughness, Mystical Reservoir, Rapid Feat Acquisition, Recuperation, Signature Spells, Spell/Power Resistance, Superior Skill Focus, Perfect Preparation, Item Creator, Domain Magic, Evolved Leader, Evolved Manifester, Evolved Spellcaster, Focused Spell Power, Immortal Grace, Floating Feats, Rule Undead, Salient Fast Healing, Superior Attack, Superior Hit Dice, Turn/Rebuke Undead, Peerless Initiative, Extra Sorcerer Monarch Domain.

#16

Under my rules, they can’t be changed except through a quest (the DM). Its possible that Oronis retrained his genocidal focus. Or perhaps he is cursed with it. Honestly, I am inclined to allow retraining for only those champions that were successful in their cleansing.